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Iron Age Briton

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  • alfiem
    replied
    They show that there was no universal value of gold, at least until perhaps the first gold coins started to appear nearly two thousand years later. Prehistoric economies were driven by factors more complex than the trade of commodities.

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  • 1798
    replied
    The ydna line of Hinxton 4 was R-DF25 which yfull dates to 3,800 ybp. This means that the scientists did not have a high resolution ydna test on Hinxton 4. He most certainly belonged to some unknown downstream SNP branch 1,800 years below DF25. Until there is a high resolution test on any of these ancient remains the age of any R1b branch will not be resolved.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Hinxton 4 K15 plain oracle
    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 98.4% Irish + 1.6% Velamas @ 4.11
    2 98.3% Irish + 1.7% Dharkar @ 4.11
    3 98.4% Irish + 1.6% Kurumba @ 4.12
    4 98.5% Irish + 1.5% Piramalai @ 4.12
    5 98.4% Irish + 1.6% Kanjar @ 4.12
    6 98.5% Irish + 1.5% Chenchu @ 4.13
    7 98.6% Irish + 1.4% Chamar @ 4.13
    8 96.2% Irish + 3.8% Lithuanian @ 4.13
    9 98.3% Irish + 1.7% Kshatriya @ 4.13
    10 98.5% Irish + 1.5% North_Kannadi @ 4.13
    11 98.6% Irish + 1.4% Sakilli @ 4.13
    12 98.5% Irish + 1.5% Dusadh @ 4.13
    13 98.5% Irish + 1.5% Uttar_Pradesh @ 4.13
    14 98.2% Irish + 1.8% Brahmin_UP @ 4.14
    15 98.5% Irish + 1.5% Kol @ 4.14
    16 98.3% Irish + 1.7% Gujarati @ 4.14
    17 95.9% Irish + 4.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.15
    18 98.4% Irish + 1.6% Bangladeshi @ 4.15
    19 98.2% Irish + 1.8% Sindhi @ 4.16
    20 98.1% Irish + 1.9% Punjabi_Jat @ 4.16

    My K15 plain oracle
    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 96.7% Irish + 3.3% Kalash @ 3.54
    2 96.6% Irish + 3.4% North_Ossetian @ 3.56
    3 93.3% Irish + 6.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.57
    4 96.8% Irish + 3.2% Punjabi_Jat @ 3.58
    5 65% Irish + 35% North_German @ 3.58
    6 96.9% Irish + 3.1% Pathan @ 3.6
    7 94.3% Irish + 5.7% Lithuanian @ 3.6
    8 96.5% Irish + 3.5% Chechen @ 3.6
    9 97.1% Irish + 2.9% Sindhi @ 3.6
    10 97% Irish + 3% Burusho @ 3.6
    11 96.6% Irish + 3.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.61
    12 96.6% Irish + 3.4% Kabardin @ 3.62
    13 94.1% Irish + 5.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.62
    14 93.9% Irish + 6.1% Belorussian @ 3.62
    15 97.5% Irish + 2.5% Kshatriya @ 3.63
    16 96.8% Irish + 3.2% Adygei @ 3.63
    17 97.3% Irish + 2.7% Brahmin_UP @ 3.63
    18 97.5% Irish + 2.5% Gujarati @ 3.64
    19 96.8% Irish + 3.2% Balkar @ 3.64
    20 97.1% Irish + 2.9% Balochi @ 3.65


    How can a man who died 2000 ybp in south east England have similar results to mine?!!!!
    Last edited by 1798; 14 April 2015, 06:58 AM.

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  • 1798
    replied
    Hinxton4 (Iron Age)
    ANE 15.08
    South_Eurasian 0.06
    Near_Eastern 35.44
    East_Eurasian 0.46
    WHG 48.5
    Oceanian 0
    Pygmy 0
    Sub-Saharan 0.46

    Hinxton 4 had mixed ancestry.

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  • 1798
    replied
    "The archaeological evidence at present available suggests that the earliest Neolithic population in the eastern regions of Britain arose as the result of the arrival of different groups of settlers coming from north-east France, Belgium, and the southern Netherlands, where the middle Neolithic cultures of Northern Chassey and Michelsberg were already established." Page 139, “Britain Begins”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chass%C3%A9en_culture

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_culture

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    "How the Hinxtons are related to each other?"
    http://www.fc.id.au/2014/10/how-hinx...ach-other.html
    Was Hinxton 4 an Irishman?

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  • 1798
    replied
    "How the Hinxtons are related to each other?"
    http://www.fc.id.au/2014/10/how-hinx...ach-other.html

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  • andreastill.gen
    replied
    I've watched a couple of threads discussing the Romanichal population of the Isles with great interest. Our family has no connection to the Isles but my maternal grandmother's family is supposed to be of partial Romany descent. That particular line originates in eastern Austria. Paper research by a cousin confirms that the two populations (Romany and non-Romany) lived side by side for centuries and did intermarry.

    I was curious to see if I could pick up on any of this with DNA testing. My mom's MyOrigins results picked up South/Central Asian DNA but MyOrigins did not show that for my grandma. When I run their data through admixture tools such as Eurogenes K13 there is definite South Asian DNA. My test results show that as well although in smaller amounts. When I run admixture proportions by chromosome my grandma gets really interesting results. She has some trace amounts that I ignore but her results go as high as 15.3%. This pattern is consistent using other calculators/tools at Gedmatch so I'm convinced the K13 results aren't an anomaly.

    I have an aunt that is also testing and I hope to convince a few more family members to test just to see if we can pick up on this in them as well. Or not, depending on the seeming randomness of DNA inheritance.

    Thanks again for engaging in this discussion. Very interesting!

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
    My relatives who are not descended from or related to Edwin Hall don't have any South Asian, per Eurogenes 13.

    Timothy Peterman
    Maith thu.

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  • T E Peterman
    replied
    My relatives who are not descended from or related to Edwin Hall don't have any South Asian, per Eurogenes 13.

    Timothy Peterman

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  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by T E Peterman View Post
    Regarding the Romanichal population of the Isles... When looked at in gedmatch, under say Eurogenes 13, what percentage of South Asian is normally reported? Are they close to 100%? Or is it more like 50% or 25% because of admixture?

    The Edwin Hall grandchildren seem to be about 2 to 3% South Asian. My assumption had been that this suggests 1/32 Romanichal or one g-g-g grandparent. But if the South Asian content of Romanichals is already diluted, the Halls could be as much as 1/16 or 1/8.

    Is there any record of church affiliation for the Romanichals of Frederick Co., VA or Jefferson Co., WV? I ask this because William James Hall was supposedly a Universalist minister, a tradition that I have never been able to prove. I think that his only son, James William Hall, was skeptical of all religion.

    Timothy Peterman
    The 2% autosomal dna could be from 30,000 years ago. Look at the results from the Neanderthal. Most Europeans have between 1 and 3%.

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  • T E Peterman
    replied
    Regarding the Romanichal population of the Isles... When looked at in gedmatch, under say Eurogenes 13, what percentage of South Asian is normally reported? Are they close to 100%? Or is it more like 50% or 25% because of admixture?

    The Edwin Hall grandchildren seem to be about 2 to 3% South Asian. My assumption had been that this suggests 1/32 Romanichal or one g-g-g grandparent. But if the South Asian content of Romanichals is already diluted, the Halls could be as much as 1/16 or 1/8.

    Is there any record of church affiliation for the Romanichals of Frederick Co., VA or Jefferson Co., WV? I ask this because William James Hall was supposedly a Universalist minister, a tradition that I have never been able to prove. I think that his only son, James William Hall, was skeptical of all religion.

    Timothy Peterman

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Iron Age R1b-L11+ Briton ERS389795

    Eurogenes K15 calculator.
    North Sea - 42.96
    Atlantic - 28.86
    Baltic - 6.47
    Eastern Euro - 12.22
    West Med - 6.77
    West Asian - 1.74
    East Med - 0.01
    Red Sea - 0.97

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  • Donald Locke
    replied
    Timothy

    Thomas Locke married Cynthia Hall b. August 15, 1786, they married December 27, 1809 Berkeley County, Virginia (now WV).

    Part of old Frederick County Va became a part of Berkeley County Va. I do not know who Cynthia's parents were, but she very well could be related to your Hall lineage.

    I have been tracing the later 1850's - 1900's Romanichal migration to the USA, but that wouldn't help with the Colonial Romanichal's other then giving you an idea of what surnames they were known to be using.

    Fortune tellers / palm readers were certainly a big part of the Romanichal way of life, but not all fortune tellers and palm readers were Romanies.

    There is a lot about the Hall family that I do not know about as I have not specifically researched their tree yet.
    And all the Hall's in my tree maybe from various unrelated Hall lineages for all I know. It would be interesting if you could trace your Hall's to Barren County Kentucky early 1800's because if you could make that connection that would really be interesting.

    My Lock's among others had lived in Frederick County Va, to Berkeley County Va, to Jefferson County Va, then the family split up, most migrated to Mercer County Kentucky by the 1780's and settled in Barren County Ky by 1799 and a few stayed in the Virginia's.

    If there were Romanies from other clans of Europe in the colonies, I am not personally aware of them. To date of the H1a male lineages who can trace our trees back to Virginia are of the British and Scottish Romanichal clan.

    I have always suspected the Hall's of Virginia and Kentucky had an earlier Romani blood tie, likely prior to them marrying my Lock's. I can not prove that, just a strong suspicion on my part.

    99% of the Lock(e)'s of Frederick County, Berkeley County, Jefferson County, Clarke County Va are related to my lineage.

    The web link is on the 1850's - 1900's Romanichal migration to the USA, it is a work in progress and no where near complete. But that research will give you a good idea of their surnames so you know who to be looking for in the early colonial records.
    http://home.comcast.net/~lockeroots/...usRecords.html

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  • T E Peterman
    replied
    My Hall family is R1b L2*. They are apparently descended from William Hall & Hannah Richardson, founders of Halltown in what is now Jefferson Co., WV.

    As mentioned earlier, the South Asian content of my ancestry appears to be derived from my great grandfather, Edwin Hall. Edwin had dark brown eyes & black hair; features that a number of his descendants, including my grandmother & my father, shared. The skin was a bit more olive than normal for a NW European. My assumption is that such slightly darker features could be an indicator of South Asian/ Romanichal ancestry.

    Edwin's mother, Sarah Benjamin Horr (1837-1887) also had dark features. She is descended from a lot of New England families (Hoar, Powers, Wickham, Benjamin & many more).

    Edwin's father, James William Hall (1827-1874) had dark features. His father, William James Hall, is said to have been a Universalist minister. His mother, Elminah Easton (1809-1857), married second to Thomas H. B. Reed. The children by Reed tended to have lighter features. All of her children thought her maiden name was McCormick, but her 1825 marriage record (at age 16) reveals Easton to be her maiden name.

    I went to Ancestry & added William Hall & Hannah Richardson as ancestors several generations before William James Hall. This yielded leaf hints. I added Philip Eastin as an ancestor of Elminah back in the mid 1700s & this yielded one leaf hint.

    Elminah's mother was a widow from about the 1820s until her death in the mid 1860s. Her name was variously shown as Amelia McCormick or Mildred McCormick; she was in Frederick Co., VA. No clue as to her maiden name. Her daughter, Rosanna, presumably by a second husband, is the one whose obituary reported her to be a fortune teller, among other things.

    If there is Romanichal ancestry here, I suspect Amelia or Mildred may have been the source; or perhaps the unknown mother of William James Hall.

    If it weren't for the consistent autosomal DNA reports, I probably wouldn't even explore this as a possibility.

    Are there accessible Romanichal records? Or have such been lost to the winds of time?

    Timothy Peterman

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