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  • #16
    Originally posted by EastAnglian View Post
    Anyone know if that was Y-DNA or Autosomal DNA?
    Yes. It was whole genome sequencing. Meaning that they tested for Y-DNA, mntDNA, and autosomal DNA. The abstract is at http://www.ashg.org/2014meeting/abst...f140122098.htm

    The two Iron Age specimens were the only men so they are the only ones that would have Y-DNA.

    Felix has been doing a conversion of the files of all ancient DNA and the Hinxton specimens from this study are in there as well as links to his analysis and the original files. http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html

    Hinxton 1 has turned out to have R1b-Z245 which is phylogenetically equivalent to L21. http://www.yfull.com/tree/R1b1a2a1a2c/ Felix hasn't updated the list with the correct terminal SNP or the correct dates. This specimen had degraded DNA and did not get results for P312, L21, or SNPs below those SNP markers.

    Hinxton 4 has turned out to be P312+ L21+ Z246/S280+ DF25/S253+ L658- L1402- CTS3655/S3787- http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-DF25/

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
      http://www.sciencenews.org/article/a...modern-britons

      "Britons might not be Anglo-Saxons, a genetic analysis of five ancient skeletons hints.

      When archaeological digs revealed ancient graves on the grounds of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, England, researchers there took it as a sign that they should analyze the ancient people’s DNA. Two skeletons were from men who were buried about 2,000 years ago. The other three skeletons were from women who died about 1,300 years ago, not long after the Anglo-Saxons invaded Britain.

      The researchers were surprised to find that the older Iron Age men were genetically more similar to people living in Britain today than the Anglo-Saxon women were. Stephan Schiffels of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute reported the results October 20 at the annual meeting of the American Society of Human Genetics.

      “It doesn’t look like these Anglo-Saxon immigrants left a big impact on the genetic makeup of modern-day Britain,” Schiffels said.

      The finding raises an intriguing possibility that indigenous people in Britain may have repelled the Anglo-Saxons but adopted the invaders’ language and culture, says Eimear Kenny, a population geneticist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City, who was not involved in the work. More ancient samples from other times and parts of Britain should give a clearer picture of that episode of history, she said."
      If there was a large movement of people from Denmark and Norway to Britain 1400 years ago then the autosomal dna of the modern British would be close to those regions.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        If there was a large movement of people from Denmark and Norway to Britain 1400 years ago then the autosomal dna of the modern British would be close to those regions.
        Are you suggesting that it isn´t? I would assume that the impact would be most in those areas that they invaded and my own DNA (many generations in NE England or Scotland) certainly shows some Scandinavian influence.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by LynCra View Post
          Are you suggesting that it isn´t? I would assume that the impact would be most in those areas that they invaded and my own DNA (many generations in NE England or Scotland) certainly shows some Scandinavian influence.
          The researchers were surprised to find that the older Iron Age men were genetically more similar to people living in Britain today than the Anglo-Saxon women were. Stephan Schiffels of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute reported the results October 20 at the annual meeting of the American Society of Human Genetics.

          It doesn’t look like these Anglo-Saxon immigrants left a big impact on the genetic makeup of modern-day Britain,” Schiffels said.

          Comment


          • #20
            I'm ancestrally from Cambridgeshire,if there was no impact from Anglo-Saxons or Scandinavians then how do you explain my Autosomal results on Gedmatch?:

            # Population Percent
            1 North_Sea 39.02
            2 Atlantic 24.74
            3 Baltic 12.36
            4 West_Med 7.75
            5 Eastern_Euro 7.02
            6 East_Med 4.92
            7 West_Asian 4.20


            --------------------------------

            Least-squares method.

            Using 1 population approximation:
            1 North_Dutch @ 5.077
            2 Danish @ 6.534
            3 Norwegian @ 6.861

            4 West_Norwegian @ 7.108
            5 Orcadian @ 7.361
            6 West_German @ 7.376
            7 Southeast_English @ 7.388
            8 Swedish @ 7.444
            9 West_Scottish @ 7.776
            10 Irish @ 7.786
            207 iterations.

            Using 2 populations approximation:

            1 50% West_German +50% West_Norwegian @ 3.754
            2 50% North_Dutch +50% West_German @ 4.207
            3 50% Orcadian +50% West_German @ 4.516
            4 50% Norwegian +50% West_German @ 4.631
            5 50% Swedish +50% West_German @ 4.668
            6 50% West_German +50% West_Scottish @ 4.829
            7 50% Danish +50% West_German @ 4.892
            8 50% Southeast_English +50% Swedish @ 4.958
            9 50% Southwest_English +50% Swedish @ 4.960
            10 50% Irish +50% West_German @ 4.992
            21528 iterations.

            Using 3 populations approximation:
            1 50% West_German +25% North_Dutch +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.681
            2 50% North_Dutch +25% West_German +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.693
            3 50% West_German +25% Orcadian +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.708
            4 50% West_German +25% Irish +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.737
            5 50% West_German +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.754
            6 50% West_Norwegian +25% West_German +25% West_German @ 3.754
            7 50% West_German +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Scottish @ 3.755
            8 50% West_German +25% Orcadian +25% Swedish @ 3.818
            9 50% West_Norwegian +25% Southeast_English +25% West_German @ 3.848
            10 50% West_Norwegian +25% Irish +25% West_German @ 3.949
            904150 iterations.

            Using 4 populations approximation:
            1 North_Dutch + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.681
            2 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.693
            3 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.708
            4 Irish + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.737
            5 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.754
            6 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.755
            7 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Swedish + West_German @ 3.801
            8 Orcadian + Swedish + West_German + West_German @ 3.818
            9 Southeast_English + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.824
            10 Southeast_English + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.848
            11 North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.895
            12 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.898
            13 Irish + North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.940
            14 Irish + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.943
            15 Irish + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.949
            16 Southwest_English + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.958
            17 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Swedish + West_German @ 3.964
            18 Orcadian + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.967
            19 Danish + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.974
            20 North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.979

            I would have thought I'd see Welsh and Irish as the top matches if my ancestors were Celts.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by EastAnglian View Post
              I'm ancestrally from Cambridgeshire,if there was no impact from Anglo-Saxons or Scandinavians then how do you explain my Autosomal results on Gedmatch?:

              # Population Percent
              1 North_Sea 39.02
              2 Atlantic 24.74
              3 Baltic 12.36
              4 West_Med 7.75
              5 Eastern_Euro 7.02
              6 East_Med 4.92
              7 West_Asian 4.20


              --------------------------------

              Least-squares method.

              Using 1 population approximation:
              1 North_Dutch @ 5.077
              2 Danish @ 6.534
              3 Norwegian @ 6.861

              4 West_Norwegian @ 7.108
              5 Orcadian @ 7.361
              6 West_German @ 7.376
              7 Southeast_English @ 7.388
              8 Swedish @ 7.444
              9 West_Scottish @ 7.776
              10 Irish @ 7.786
              207 iterations.

              Using 2 populations approximation:

              1 50% West_German +50% West_Norwegian @ 3.754
              2 50% North_Dutch +50% West_German @ 4.207
              3 50% Orcadian +50% West_German @ 4.516
              4 50% Norwegian +50% West_German @ 4.631
              5 50% Swedish +50% West_German @ 4.668
              6 50% West_German +50% West_Scottish @ 4.829
              7 50% Danish +50% West_German @ 4.892
              8 50% Southeast_English +50% Swedish @ 4.958
              9 50% Southwest_English +50% Swedish @ 4.960
              10 50% Irish +50% West_German @ 4.992
              21528 iterations.

              Using 3 populations approximation:
              1 50% West_German +25% North_Dutch +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.681
              2 50% North_Dutch +25% West_German +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.693
              3 50% West_German +25% Orcadian +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.708
              4 50% West_German +25% Irish +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.737
              5 50% West_German +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.754
              6 50% West_Norwegian +25% West_German +25% West_German @ 3.754
              7 50% West_German +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Scottish @ 3.755
              8 50% West_German +25% Orcadian +25% Swedish @ 3.818
              9 50% West_Norwegian +25% Southeast_English +25% West_German @ 3.848
              10 50% West_Norwegian +25% Irish +25% West_German @ 3.949
              904150 iterations.

              Using 4 populations approximation:
              1 North_Dutch + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.681
              2 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.693
              3 Orcadian + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.708
              4 Irish + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.737
              5 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.754
              6 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.755
              7 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Swedish + West_German @ 3.801
              8 Orcadian + Swedish + West_German + West_German @ 3.818
              9 Southeast_English + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.824
              10 Southeast_English + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.848
              11 North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.895
              12 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.898
              13 Irish + North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.940
              14 Irish + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.943
              15 Irish + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.949
              16 Southwest_English + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.958
              17 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Swedish + West_German @ 3.964
              18 Orcadian + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.967
              19 Danish + West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.974
              20 North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.979

              I would have thought I'd see Welsh and Irish as the top matches if my ancestors were Celts.
              All of these figures mean nothing to me. Everyone in western Europe must have similar autosomal dna.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                All of these figures mean nothing to me. Everyone in western Europe must have similar autosomal dna.
                They show that my closest matches in Europe are Scandinavian(Norway) and West German. I'm from Cambridgeshire, so that doesn't exactly fit in with the idea that there was no wipe out and that Celts and modern East Anglian folk are the same autosomally.

                I think there must be some small amount of Celt in me but not much given my admixture results. I used to think 60/40 split between incomer and native but I'm thinking a higher incomer amount than that these days.
                Last edited by EastAnglian; 23 October 2014, 09:37 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by EastAnglian View Post
                  They show that my closest matches in Europe are Scandinavian(Norway) and West German. I'm from Cambridgeshire, so that doesn't exactly fit in with the idea that there was no wipe out and that Celts and modern East Anglian folk are the same autosomally.

                  I think there must be some small amount of Celt in me but not much given my admixture results. I used to think 60/40 split between incomer and native but I'm thinking a higher incomer amount than that these days.
                  What about the autosomal dna from the original inhabitants of north western Europe? You are referring to autosomal dna within the last 2,500 years. People have been living in the Isles from the LGM. You must have some autosomal dna from them.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    What about the autosomal dna from the original inhabitants of north western Europe? You are referring to autosomal dna within the last 2,500 years. People have been living in the Isles from the LGM. You must have some autosomal dna from them.
                    If you upload your FF raw data and X Chromosome raw data to gedmatch.com, you will be able to see what your results are with the admixture calculators.

                    It might help put some things in context for you.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                      If you upload your FF raw data and X Chromosome raw data to gedmatch.com, you will be able to see what your results are with the admixture calculators.

                      It might help put some things in context for you.
                      I think that felix showed that the admixture calculators are a load of nonsense. There are people shown as recent cousins with a person who died 24,000 ybp.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                        I think that felix showed that the admixture calculators are a load of nonsense.
                        Have you ever ran an admixture tool against your FF data?, if so what was the result?, I bet Irish wasn't number one and that's why you're saying admixture calculators are nonsense. Anything that doesn't fit in with your theories is described as such.

                        There are people shown as recent cousins with a person who died 24,000 ybp.
                        I've got cousins on Family Finder, they are German and Norwegian. So Family Finder for me confirms what Gedmatch is saying, that within 1000-1500 years I have ancestry from those areas of Europe, this fits in with my ancestors being Anglo-Saxons and Vikings not British Celts.
                        Last edited by EastAnglian; 24 October 2014, 03:52 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Now that my (99%British Isles/1% Asia Minor) Irish grandmother's results have returned I'll throw her K15 into the mix for comparison. Her known roots are mainly in Armagh, Galway and Mayo.

                          Admix Results (sorted):

                          # Population Percent
                          1 North_Sea 37.03
                          2 Atlantic 28.76
                          3 Baltic 9.84
                          4 West_Med 7.20
                          5 Eastern_Euro 7.13
                          6 West_Asian 6.80
                          7 Amerindian 1.68
                          8 South_Asian 1.39

                          Least-squares method.

                          Using 1 population approximation:
                          1 Orcadian @ 4.695037
                          2 Irish @ 4.747547
                          3 West_Scottish @ 4.969964
                          4 Southeast_English @ 5.312110

                          5 North_Dutch @ 5.428865
                          6 Danish @ 6.094792
                          7 Southwest_English @ 6.104275
                          8 North_German @ 7.127738
                          9 Norwegian @ 9.472683
                          10 West_Norwegian @ 9.657881
                          11 South_Dutch @ 10.245161
                          12 Swedish @ 10.789618
                          13 West_German @ 10.980000
                          14 North_Swedish @ 14.530258
                          15 French @ 14.744915
                          16 East_German @ 16.963350
                          17 Southwest_Finnish @ 20.087074
                          18 Austrian @ 21.687025
                          19 Hungarian @ 22.214186
                          20 Spanish_Cataluna @ 23.466423

                          Using 2 populations approximation:
                          1 50% North_German +50% Orcadian @ 4.066386

                          Using 3 populations approximation:
                          1 50% North_German +25% Orcadian +25% Orcadian @ 4.066386

                          Using 4 populations approximation:
                          1 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.789279
                          2 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.804422
                          3 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.873195
                          4 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 3.910693
                          5 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.941847
                          6 North_Dutch + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.050917
                          7 North_German + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.066386
                          8 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.120435
                          9 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.141977
                          10 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.148762
                          11 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 4.152512
                          12 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 4.168439
                          13 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 4.169359
                          14 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.175824
                          15 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 4.184335
                          16 North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.200647
                          17 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.203398
                          18 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.210155
                          19 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 4.211171
                          20 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.212255

                          This is the same grandmother who provided me with not so much as a single % of British Isles, according to MyOrigins

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by suttonwho View Post
                            Now that my (99%British Isles/1% Asia Minor) Irish grandmother's results have returned I'll throw her K15 into the mix for comparison. Her known roots are mainly in Armagh, Galway and Mayo.

                            Admix Results (sorted):

                            # Population Percent
                            1 North_Sea 37.03
                            2 Atlantic 28.76
                            3 Baltic 9.84
                            4 West_Med 7.20
                            5 Eastern_Euro 7.13
                            6 West_Asian 6.80
                            7 Amerindian 1.68
                            8 South_Asian 1.39

                            Least-squares method.

                            Using 1 population approximation:
                            1 Orcadian @ 4.695037
                            2 Irish @ 4.747547
                            3 West_Scottish @ 4.969964
                            4 Southeast_English @ 5.312110

                            5 North_Dutch @ 5.428865
                            6 Danish @ 6.094792
                            7 Southwest_English @ 6.104275
                            8 North_German @ 7.127738
                            9 Norwegian @ 9.472683
                            10 West_Norwegian @ 9.657881
                            11 South_Dutch @ 10.245161
                            12 Swedish @ 10.789618
                            13 West_German @ 10.980000
                            14 North_Swedish @ 14.530258
                            15 French @ 14.744915
                            16 East_German @ 16.963350
                            17 Southwest_Finnish @ 20.087074
                            18 Austrian @ 21.687025
                            19 Hungarian @ 22.214186
                            20 Spanish_Cataluna @ 23.466423

                            Using 2 populations approximation:
                            1 50% North_German +50% Orcadian @ 4.066386

                            Using 3 populations approximation:
                            1 50% North_German +25% Orcadian +25% Orcadian @ 4.066386

                            Using 4 populations approximation:
                            1 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.789279
                            2 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.804422
                            3 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.873195
                            4 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 3.910693
                            5 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.941847
                            6 North_Dutch + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.050917
                            7 North_German + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.066386
                            8 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.120435
                            9 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.141977
                            10 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.148762
                            11 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 4.152512
                            12 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 4.168439
                            13 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 4.169359
                            14 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.175824
                            15 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 4.184335
                            16 North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.200647
                            17 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.203398
                            18 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.210155
                            19 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 4.211171
                            20 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.212255

                            This is the same grandmother who provided me with not so much as a single % of British Isles, according to MyOrigins
                            Interesting results, from those I'd say she's a mix of Native Irish, Viking and English plantationer.

                            I guess the Orcadian would be the Viking and the North German is the English plantationer (Angles from north Germany settled England). My best guess anyway!
                            Last edited by EastAnglian; 24 October 2014, 05:56 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by EastAnglian View Post
                              Have you ever ran an admixture tool against your FF data?, if so what was the result?, I bet Irish wasn't number one and that's why you're saying admixture calculators are nonsense. Anything that doesn't fit in with your theories is described as such.



                              I've got cousins on Family Finder, they are German and Norwegian. So Family Finder for me confirms what Gedmatch is saying, that within 1000-1500 years I have ancestry from those areas of Europe, this fits in with my ancestors being Anglo-Saxons and Vikings not British Celts.
                              You can believe whatever yo want. I don't feel insecure about my ethnicity.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                                You can believe whatever yo want. I don't feel insecure about my ethnicity.
                                Well you have never shared your admixture results on here, any plans to do that?, would be interesting

                                Comment

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