Doggerland

[mjaMahé]

What planet are you from?

Scientist planet with some possible entries into possible forgotten worlds.

[Biblioteque]

MjaMahe: You have a great sense of humor. LOL

[1798]

MjaMahe: You have a great sense of humor. LOL

LOL about what? The first R1b man entered western Europe 4000 ybp LOL.

[Biblioteque]

Doggerland Dude

LOL, about, or with, his great sense of humor. Just a more rhetoric, than reason comment. Lighten up......... Have you started writing your book? What are the possible titles?

[1798]

Have you started writing your book? What are the possible titles?

"Loose Women of the Stone Age"

[Stevo]

LOL about what? The first R1b man entered western Europe 4000 ybp LOL.

Why do you keep using that figure, since you know, or should know, having been told several times in this thread alone, that the two sets of male Beaker Folk remains from Kromsdorf, Germany, tested R1b and have been dated to about 2600 BC (4600 ybp)?

You are attempting to "LOL" about a straw man, since no one is claiming "[t]he first R1b man entered western Europe 4000 ybp".

[Stevo]

The current thinking on R1b in Europe, meaning, really, R-L11 (P311), is summarized best in this quote from Dr. Hammer's slide show at the recent FTDNA conference:

Combined evidence supports [the] hypothesis that the current
distribution of the R-P311 lineage is the result of major
population movements occurring after the Neolithic agricultural transition.

Populations carrying R-P311 chromosomes appear to have
nearly displaced western European Neolithic Y
chromosomes.

Note that Dr. Hammer did not say "4000 ybp", which would have been well into the Bronze Age and over half a millennium younger than the two R1b Beaker Folk men from Kromsdorf, Germany.

Here is a link to Dr. Hammer's slide show.

Dr. Hammer's 2013 Slide Show

"[A]fter the Neolithic agricultural transition" means anything from the Late Neolithic through the Copper Age (Chalcolithic Period) or perhaps the early Bronze Age.

[1798]

The current thinking on R1b in Europe, meaning, really, R-L11 (P311), is summarized best in this quote from Dr. Hammer's slide show at the recent FTDNA conference:



Note that Dr. Hammer did not say "4000 ybp", which would have been well into the Bronze Age and over half a millennium younger than the two R1b Beaker Folk men from Kromsdorf, Germany.

Here is a link to Dr. Hammer's slide show.

Dr. Hammer's 2013 Slide Show

"[A]fter the Neolithic agricultural transition" means anything from the Late Neolithic through the Copper Age (Chalcolithic Period) or perhaps the early Bronze Age.

The early Bronze-Age age is 4,500 and it doesn't seem possible that L11 was born that recent. It doesn't make sense either. The branch that I belong to is estimated to be as old or even older than 4,500.

[Stevo]

The early Bronze-Age age is 4,500 and it doesn't seem possible that L11 was born that recent. It doesn't make sense either. The branch that I belong to is estimated to be as old or even older than 4,500.

Read the whole post and read Dr. Hammer's slide show. The Bronze Age in the Balkans began nearly 6,000 years ago. The Copper Age preceded it.

[1798]

R1b could have survived in small pockets during the European Mesolithic and then mushroomed with the coming of the Neolithic.

[N21163]

R1b could have survived in small pockets during the European Mesolithic and then mushroomed with the coming of the Neolithic.

Have there been studies into the possibility of this happening?

Any models or evidence to support such ideas?

Or is this an idea that you have conjured up?

Legitimate question, did you read the whole post and read through Dr Hammer's slide show that Stevo was talking about?

[1798]

Have there been studies into the possibility of this happening?

Any models or evidence to support such ideas?

Or is this an idea that you have conjured up?

Legitimate question, did you read the whole post and read through Dr Hammer's slide show that Stevo was talking about?

I did read it but it doesn't look much different to what is found at the rubbish site Eupedia.

[1798]

I did read it but it doesn't look much different to what is found at the rubbish site Eupedia.

Here is some news about Doggerland.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27224243

[N21163]

I did read it but it doesn't look much different to what is found at the rubbish site Eupedia.

LOL thanks for that, I needed a good laugh.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt....but you didn't disappoint

[Stevo]

R1b could have survived in small pockets during the European Mesolithic and then mushroomed with the coming of the Neolithic.

That's a possibility, but thus far no R1b has been recovered from any Mesolithic or Neolithic sites, and that in places where R1b is dominant today, like France and Spain.

Had R1b been around western Europe during the Mesolithic only to expand in the Neolithic, it should be turning up in Mesolithic and Neolithic sites, but it is not.

And its modern haplotypes, if they are that old in western Europe, should be much more diverse than they are.