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  • Problems downloading Raw DNA material

    Hi All,

    I recently transferred my MyHeritage DNA results to FTDNA and paid 19 dollars to unlock the MyOrigins function, however, I am not able to download my raw DNA data. I recently chatted to one of the helpdesk staff and she told me it is not possible to download raw DNA material that has been transferred from MyHeritage, however, I have transferred my father's Ancestry raw DNA to FTDNA and was able to download his raw DNA. Also, when I check my order history it says Kit Received: Pending, batch: 0 which is odd, since my myOrigins results and matches are already available….

    Thanks,

    -Alfred
    AlfredJames
    FTDNA Customer
    Last edited by AlfredJames; 28 January 2019, 06:42 PM.

  • #2
    Paying 19 dollars truly is a waste of money if you're wanting to download your raw DNA file after having unlocked your myOrigins. FTDNA advertises that they accept transfers from other companies such as MyHeritage or Ancestry, however, once you have paid to unlock your myOrigins results, they won't let you download your raw DNA material, unless it is an Ancestry file. Nowhere is it mentioned that they won't let you download Myheritage transfer files though. They're clearly duping people into ordering an autosomal test. I only recently found out that FTDNA offers the best autosomal analysis. All in all very misleading. Furthermore, I should also point out that I'm one of their customers, having previously ordered a 111 Y test.
    AlfredJames
    FTDNA Customer
    Last edited by AlfredJames; 28 January 2019, 10:26 PM.

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    • #3
      AlfredJames your complaint does not make sense. You uploaded your MyHeritage raw data to FTDNA. If you were able to download your raw data from FTDNA you would end up with the same raw data you already have from MyHeritage.

      What is the point of wanting to do extra work to get what you already have?

      Comment


      • #4
        I tend to get more accurate results when I run FTDNA kits through Gedmatch, hence the reason why I would like to download my raw DNA data. Also, I believe that customers should get the opportunity of downloading their raw data after having unlocked their myOrigins. To some degree, FTDNA already shows more accurate results than any of the other testing companies by showing British + Eastern Euro, instead of British + Scandinavian for me, hence I know FTDNA is more accurate, it is just that I would like to see the specific areas/populations.
        AlfredJames
        FTDNA Customer
        Last edited by AlfredJames; 29 January 2019, 05:29 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Alfred James: For the GEDmatch results that you feel are more accurate, do you mean that you use FTDNA kits that were not transfers, but were actually original FTDNA swab kits? The latter are tested on FTDNA's chip. That chip tests for different SNPs than the current chips at MyHeritage, Ancestry and 23andMe (each of which have chips that test for different sets of SNPs). So, the resulting FTDNA raw file would indeed be different than a raw file from MyHeritage, or the other companies, and likely give you different results at GEDmatch.com.

          When you upload a raw file from MyHeritage or the other companies to FTDNA, that file is what FTDNA uses with their algorithms for ethnicity estimates, and matching to other people who have either tested at FTDNA or transferred there. There is no DNA sample to test with FTDNA's chip to produce a new raw file, and your transferred raw file is the only data used to get results. This is why, for example, transfers of raw files from Ancestry's version 2 chip show far fewer matches, compared to the number of matches one would get if they submitted a DNA sample to FTDNA.

          As jimbirk told you, there is no point in downloading your transferred raw file, as it would be the same MyHeritage file you uploaded to FTDNA. FTDNA has not produced any new raw data for you to download, so there is NO new FTDNA file.

          Comment


          • #6
            KATM: when I transfer an Ancestry kit to FTDNA and transfer the raw DNA that has been analysed by FTDNA to Gedmatch, I tend to get different results, in all cases. And yes, the FTDNA files are transfers, obviously, not actual swab kits. FTDNA transfers tend to be more accurate and are to some extent similar to the myOrigins estimates, while the Ancestry/MyHeritage estimates are wildly different, so hats off to FTDNA for getting it right, it is just ashame about the myOrigins unlock as they won’t let you download raw material from MyHeritage.
            AlfredJames
            FTDNA Customer
            Last edited by AlfredJames; 29 January 2019, 12:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              If that is your experience, then I stand corrected. I don't understand why that is happening for you, though. I suppose I could try it for myself to see if it works for me (although it would be far from a high priority for me), as I tested with Ancestry late in 2017, on their v. 2 chip. The ethnicity estimates at the various companies are not my primary interest, and I take them with a large grain of salt.

              My FTDNA Family Finder results were from a transfer of my 23andMe v. 3 kit back in 2013, and that 23andMe file is the same file which I uploaded to GEDmatch long ago, and to MyHeritage a few months ago. 23andMe's v.3 chip had much more in common with FTDNA's chip back then, compared to 23andMe's other chip versions.

              Out of curiosity, have you opened your original Ancestry data file and compared it to its equivalent file at FTDNA (after transferring from Ancestry to FTDNA and downloading again)? Do you see the same amount of lines of "rs" identification numbers (RSID), or a different amount? You would need to open the files in a spreadsheet program instead of a text file in order to more easily see how many lines for RSIDs are in each file. See "How do I read my Family Finder raw data file?" in the FTDNA Learning Center for more information.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry KATM, I misread your previous reaction, hence I deleted my comment. Yes, it appears that I get different results when I transfer my father's FTDNA file, which wasn't an actual swab test, but a transfer, compared to my father's Ancestry swab test. I do find it hard to believe that your 23andme swab test results are 100% identical to your FTDNA transfer results on Gedmatch. You should try it yourself and report back to me if you feel like it. When I first noticed it, I was quite baffled. I went through all the calculators comparing his ancestry, FTDNA and myheritage results, and I must say, the FTDNA was a lot more accurate than all the other files. So in my experience, based on what I know about my family background, I'd say FTDNA does a very good job. My father is 75% British, mostly from the Pennines region of Northern England and 25% East German. FTDNA shows that he has British + a small percentage East European ancestry and Ancestry and MyHeritage shows that he has British and Scandinavian admixture. Irrespective of the kit I upload to Gedmatch, all the calculators show British with slight Eastern European admixture, FTDNA showing the most Eastern European admixture.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Downloading transferred Raw Data is not the same as downloading a FamilyTreeDNA tested Raw Data File.

                  Transfers Raw Data file would contain only a fraction of the FTDNA tested SNPs, FTDNA only extracts from your original testing company Raw Data file the SNPs that FTDNA tests themselves, all others are discarded.
                  In the case of AncestryV2 transfers only around 426,923 SNPs are retained of the approx 670,946 tested by ancestry (Ancestry V2 transfers to FTDNA only receive partial matchlists)
                  FTDNA tests around 700,000 SNPS, so in the case of AncestryV2 transfers, as stated above 426,923 SNPs are transferred to FTDNA, meaning only around 60% representation of what your raw Data file would contain if one had tested directly with FTDNA

                  In the case of myHeritage, both myHeritage and FTDNA uses the same testing chip, and myHeritage tests are processed in the same lab as FTDNA. Your myheritage Raw DAta will contain the same SNPs as FTDNA with slight variation due to fact FTDNA removes certain SNP deemed medical and any yDNA or mtDNA snps that may have been tested on chip.

                  Variations between company results is partially due to the fact that each tests a different set of SNPs,
                  transfers to FTDNA will not fill in the missing SNPs in these files that FTDNA tests,
                  they will be looked at as no calls in your FTDNA transfers Raw DATa.

                  Transfers raw data will not give you the same results elsewhere as a directly tested FamilyFinder Raw Data would.
                  The only transfer raw data that would give similar results is myHeritage

                  Following link will give you an idea of how many SNPs would be in a transfers Raw Data at FTDNA based on testing company and Chip version (overlap)
                  https://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_SNP_comparison_chart

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                    In the case of myHeritage, both myHeritage and FTDNA uses the same testing chip, and myHeritage tests are processed in the same lab as FTDNA. Your myheritage Raw DAta will contain the same SNPs as FTDNA with slight variation due to fact FTDNA removes certain SNP deemed medical and any yDNA or mtDNA snps that may have been tested on chip.
                    [/URL]
                    Prairielad, I was wondering about the chip that MyHeritage uses. I understood it to be an Illumina GSA chip, and that they use imputation to provide results. I knew that FTDNA's lab processes MyHeritage kits, but was under the impression that FTDNA had not YET changed to a GSA chip. In that case, FTDNA's lab would test MyHeritage kits using one chip, and FTDNA kits using another (autosomal tests). I also thought that FTDNA was going to change chips either in the recent past, or sometime soon.

                    Has it been announced that FTDNA has now started using a GSA chip, and I just missed it? If so, where can I read about it? I also had heard that when FTDNA changed to a GSA chip, they were going to have it customized to retain as many markers in common with their previous, non-GSA chip.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AlfredJames View Post
                      I do find it hard to believe that your 23andme swab test results are 100% identical to your FTDNA transfer results on Gedmatch. You should try it yourself and report back to me if you feel like it.
                      I do have both my 23andMe raw file and my transferred FTDNA Family Finder raw file uploaded to GEDmatch. One is marked for research, the other is public. I checked my files, and apparently have only used the 23andMe file with the ethnicity tools. If I have time, I'll try to use the FF file with the same tools to see if there is a difference, and report back in this thread.

                      But I do agree with prairie lad's comments above, that for files transferred to FTDNA, FTDNA will only use the SNPs in common. My 23andMe v.3 file had many more SNPs in common with FTDNA's tested SNPs, so there may not be much difference. I have noted that my 23andMe file had markers for things such as hair color and eye color that I saw were not included in other FF results for kits that I manage.
                      KATM
                      mtDNA: K1a3 / YDNA: R-FGC46379
                      Last edited by KATM; 30 January 2019, 06:06 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KATM View Post

                        Prairielad, I was wondering about the chip that MyHeritage uses. I understood it to be an Illumina GSA chip, and that they use imputation to provide results. I knew that FTDNA's lab processes MyHeritage kits, but was under the impression that FTDNA had not YET changed to a GSA chip. In that case, FTDNA's lab would test MyHeritage kits using one chip, and FTDNA kits using another (autosomal tests). I also thought that FTDNA was going to change chips either in the recent past, or sometime soon.

                        Has it been announced that FTDNA has now started using a GSA chip, and I just missed it? If so, where can I read about it? I also had heard that when FTDNA changed to a GSA chip, they were going to have it customized to retain as many markers in common with their previous, non-GSA chip.
                        It is my Understanding that both FTDNA and myHeritage use the same chip version/testing chip.
                        But myHeritage does use imputation, Not sure if it is used on their own tests or just limited to being used on 3rd Party transfers to fill in the missing SNPs.

                        It maybe that both FTDNA and myHeritage are using the newer customized GSA style chip now,
                        I have not tested anyone with FamilyFinder since 2017 so I can not compare a recent Raw Data file to older ones.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by prairielad View Post

                          It is my Understanding that both FTDNA and myHeritage use the same chip version/testing chip.
                          But myHeritage does use imputation, Not sure if it is used on their own tests or just limited to being used on 3rd Party transfers to fill in the missing SNPs.

                          It maybe that both FTDNA and myHeritage are using the newer customized GSA style chip now,
                          I have not tested anyone with FamilyFinder since 2017 so I can not compare a recent Raw Data file to older ones.
                          Thanks for the reply. Regarding not having anyone tested since 2017, it's the same with me. But I do have a kit standing by, just in case I can find another relative to test!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                            Downloading transferred Raw Data is not the same as downloading a FamilyTreeDNA tested Raw Data File.

                            Transfers Raw Data file would contain only a fraction of the FTDNA tested SNPs, FTDNA only extracts from your original testing company Raw Data file the SNPs that FTDNA tests themselves, all others are discarded.
                            In the case of AncestryV2 transfers only around 426,923 SNPs are retained of the approx 670,946 tested by ancestry (Ancestry V2 transfers to FTDNA only receive partial matchlists)
                            FTDNA tests around 700,000 SNPS, so in the case of AncestryV2 transfers, as stated above 426,923 SNPs are transferred to FTDNA, meaning only around 60% representation of what your raw Data file would contain if one had tested directly with FTDNA

                            In the case of myHeritage, both myHeritage and FTDNA uses the same testing chip, and myHeritage tests are processed in the same lab as FTDNA. Your myheritage Raw DAta will contain the same SNPs as FTDNA with slight variation due to fact FTDNA removes certain SNP deemed medical and any yDNA or mtDNA snps that may have been tested on chip.

                            Variations between company results is partially due to the fact that each tests a different set of SNPs,
                            transfers to FTDNA will not fill in the missing SNPs in these files that FTDNA tests,
                            they will be looked at as no calls in your FTDNA transfers Raw DATa.

                            Transfers raw data will not give you the same results elsewhere as a directly tested FamilyFinder Raw Data would.
                            The only transfer raw data that would give similar results is myHeritage

                            Following link will give you an idea of how many SNPs would be in a transfers Raw Data at FTDNA based on testing company and Chip version (overlap)
                            https://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_SNP_comparison_chart
                            I believe the V1 chip was in use when my father first tested with ancestry, so the difference in SNP's between Ancestry V1 and FTDNA is a lot less than 60% That being said though, it seems that, although just a few SNP's were lost in the transition, FTDNA's estimates are still more accurate than my father's original swab test with Ancestry. As I pointed out in one of my previous comments, my father had 3 grandfather's who were British, and 1 grandfather who was from Eastern Germany near Poland. His ancestry results show 62% British, 21% Scandinavian, 9% West European, 4% Irish 2% East European and 2% Iberian, however, his FTDNA results show 86% British and 14% Eastern Europe.

                            Even when I transfer the original Ancestry file to Gedmatch (the one he swab tested with) which shows very minute Eastern Euro, he still gets British in combination with more eastern shifted results, but certainly not Scandinavian. His Eurogenes K15 Eastern Euro results for instance are 11.73% using the Ancestry kit and 11.86% using the FTDNA kit, combined with North Sea and Atlantic results which are typical of (western)British Isles descent. Such high Eastern Euro percentages are atypical of someone of solely British ancestry and indicative of someone of partially Eastern European or Central European descent. The average North German Eastern Euro percentage is 9.95% for example. He usually gets population combinations such as 75% South West English + 25% East German or 87.5% South West English + 12.5% Kargopol Russian. His Eurogenes K36 Eastern Euro results are 7.36/7.57, which is rather high for someone of Western European descent. His sister shows even higher Eastern Euro results. So in the case of my father, would you say his FTDNA results are more accurate, or his Ancestry results? It might also be informative to mention that, although not an autosomal test, my father has a very close Y-DNA match with an ethnic Austrian and matches him at 111 distance 4.

                            You would expect similar results between MyHeritage and FTDNA, as they both use the same testing chip and similar number of SNP's, however, my MyHeritage results differ wildly from those of my myOrigins transfer result. MyHeritage primarily shows British and Scandinavian, however, FTDNA shows no Scandinavian and +10% Eastern European. It seems FTDNA is spot on again, as it also shows Eastern European in my case and also my aunt's.
                            AlfredJames
                            FTDNA Customer
                            Last edited by AlfredJames; 30 January 2019, 08:41 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                              Transfers raw data will not give you the same results elsewhere as a directly tested FamilyFinder Raw Data would.
                              The only transfer raw data that would give similar results is myHeritage

                              Following link will give you an idea of how many SNPs would be in a transfers Raw Data at FTDNA based on testing company and Chip version (overlap)
                              https://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_SNP_comparison_chart
                              So are you saying that FTDNA and MyHeritage should give similar results on Gedmatch? because they are different to some extent.The FTDNA results tend to be more accurate for me. When I transfer my original MyHeritage data to Gedmatch, I actually get results which seem to correspond to my transferred FTDNA myOrigins results, that is, elevated Baltic and Eastern Euro, i.e. slightly eastern shifted. I know I have fairly recent eastern ancestry on my paternal side and no Scandinavian. FTDNA shows British and Eastern Euro but MyHeritage shows British and Scandinavian. It seems that FTDNA does a better job at telling the overlapping areas apart. The FTDNA transfer also shows Eastern Euro elevated, but far more elevated than my MyHeritage swab kit....
                              AlfredJames
                              FTDNA Customer
                              Last edited by AlfredJames; 30 January 2019, 10:01 PM.

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