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What's with so many 25 Marker results?

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  • What's with so many 25 Marker results?

    G'Day. This is not really a grumble or a gripe. But close enough.

    I'm wondering why there are so many 25 markers on my "good news, another match" news that do not go to any other level.

    Let me put it this way. 12 markers, which I ignore, I have 15000 plus. 25 markers I have 1455. 37 markers I have 9. 67 markers I have 25. 111 markers I have 1.

    But here's my point. In 2018, the past almost 7 months, I have had 96 "good news another match at 25 markers", none at 37 (before that 2 in two years), none at 67 markers (3 in 2017), and none in 111 (last in 2014).

    Why so many 25 markers that fizzle with ZERO at higher levels. I've checked the list at 25, and the "matches" have almost always tested to 67 (a few to 37, a few to 111). In earlier years, I was getting a (small) percentage (moving up) through to 67 even if they were GD7 or whatever.

    Not griping, but very curious. Is it because of "transfers" from elsewhere? Is it a change in the way matches are calculated? Seems odd to me.

    Thanks for reading.

  • #2
    Percentage of men testing here without British origins keeps increasing.

    Mr. W.

    Comment


    • #3
      Increasing numbers of non-British testees, you say.

      Thanks, Mr W for replying. Hadn't thought of that. So the reason I'm not getting past 25 markers is because people of British origin are no longer testing at the same or increased numbers, but "others" are, and the 25s results are because I'm not sufficiently far enough removed from European ancestry? It sure seems like everyone is M269 and that's where it ends. And yet, my origins from this and other companies suggest a good percentage of Scandinavian and Southern European in my sample. At YFull, I have only one close (somewhat) match, and he has British origins, so maybe that's it. Doesn't "feel" right, though, so many just getting to M269 and a few GD back. Just wondering. Cheers.

      Comment


      • #4
        R-M269 is an old haplogroup and considering haplotype convergence we can get similar looking STR results that fizzle out after 25 markers due to the increased resolution with higher STR tests. Haplogroup R benefits greatly from SNP testing in terms of determining which branch of R a person may belong to such as R-L21 or R-U106, etc.

        Basically your 25 marker matches at this point in the game of genetic genealogy and with all the advancements are now equivalent to 12 marker matches in certain ways, making these matches very old and not very genealogically relevant (unless learned otherwise).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dna View Post
          Percentage of men testing here without British origins keeps increasing.
          That's a good thing, isn't it, increasing the probability that those with non-British origins will find a match.

          What would be of concern, however, would be if the number of British tests is falling. The demise of the annual 'Who Do You Think You Are?' event, originally held in London, latterly in Birmingham, must have contributed to some decline, however slight, from the tests sold there.

          Some UK TV series like 'Long Lost Family' are sponsored by 'Ancestry' with individual programmes including Ancestry ads either during the commercial breaks or at the beginning and end, which, I would've thought, must lead to additional sales. This sort of thing would, I'm guessing, be far too expensive for FTDNA's limited resources.

          Ancestry also uses internet banner ads. They often appear when I'm doing genealogy-related searches. These would be much cheaper but I never see similar FTDNA advertising on the internet. I wonder why? I would've thought that it would be a cost-effective way of targeting those with genealogical interests and of increasing the diversity of testing from different countries, locations, and backgrounds.

          Comment


          • #6
            It is difficult to say whether the number of testers with their origins in Britain keeps growing each year by the same count.

            I was only responding to the limited data given by the original poster: more matches with 12 and 25 markers not translating into more matches with 37 markers. That is surely an indicator that the new testers are coming from some other but related populations.


            Mr. W.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Caburn View Post
              That's a good thing, isn't it, increasing the probability that those with non-British origins will find a match.

              What would be of concern, however, would be if the number of British tests is falling. The demise of the annual 'Who Do You Think You Are?' event, originally held in London, latterly in Birmingham, must have contributed to some decline, however slight, from the tests sold there.

              Some UK TV series like 'Long Lost Family' are sponsored by 'Ancestry' with individual programmes including Ancestry ads either during the commercial breaks or at the beginning and end, which, I would've thought, must lead to additional sales. This sort of thing would, I'm guessing, be far too expensive for FTDNA's limited resources.

              Ancestry also uses internet banner ads. They often appear when I'm doing genealogy-related searches. These would be much cheaper but I never see similar FTDNA advertising on the internet. I wonder why? I would've thought that it would be a cost-effective way of targeting those with genealogical interests and of increasing the diversity of testing from different countries, locations, and backgrounds.
              That's interesting, I see a fair amount of FTDNA banners on various websites when I'm digging for genealogically relevant things. Perhaps it is a locality thing or related to our ISPs?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dna View Post
                I was only responding to the limited data given by the original poster: more matches with 12 and 25 markers not translating into more matches with 37 markers. That is surely an indicator that the new testers are coming from some other but related populations.Mr. W.
                Yes - apologies for going off-topic.

                I've always assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the 25 marker matches were transfers-in from tests taken with other companies which had only 25 STR markers in common with FTDNA's selection. They would have to test again with FTDNA at the Y37 level or above to be fully comparable with other FTDNA Y-DNA test results.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                  That's interesting, I see a fair amount of FTDNA banners on various websites when I'm digging for genealogically relevant things. Perhaps it is a locality thing or related to our ISPs?
                  That's a possibility. Perhaps they're only targeting certain regions with banner-ads, like Canada or the USA, but not the UK.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Those pesky 25 notifications ...

                    Thank you all for the interest and for the replies.

                    Yes, I had also thought that transfers to FTDNA may be contributing to the 25s. For quite some time now, I have not been looking at or getting notifications of 12 markers, so I think I'm going to do the same with 25s. I know that M269 is a long way from my lonely little twig on the tree, and (a guess) probably 90% of my 25 marker matches are GD2 GD3 or more, and (annoyingly) no names of any ancestry and no basic trees.

                    My DNA interest has been family history based, of course, but also to be able to contribute to the science by placing my results far and wide with uploads. There is no doubt that I see more ancestry connections with my results from tests also taken at other more "populated" family history sites - happily results from four still have me on the same little twig of the Haplotree. Whereas when I started with DNA testing years back now, I did the long and expensive route of addition .... 25-37-67-111-BigY and a few SNPs in between at the behest of Group admins, I now recommend autosomal testing as the first action because it is inexpensive, and gives a better "lay of the land" to enable a solid plan for further tests.

                    Meanwhile, I'm going to stop notifications for 25 markers. It is easy enough once in a while to check and see if anything has popped up.

                    Cheers, and thanks for the interest.

                    Colin Clarke
                    S1491>>>>Y23824 (and no matches ;-( )
                    Paternal to 1700s Cambridgeshire/Suffolk
                    Last edited by Mudgeeclarke; 27 July 2018, 05:35 AM. Reason: Added HG

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I know the feeling of low matches. I match the people I "need" to match to confirm my paper trail and I match a new person from a different area in the UK which confirms some family suspicions about migration between Scotland and Northern Ireland.

                      My Big Y matches are well, underwhelming, 8 total, 2 on my terminal SNP branch, however they are a haplogroup which is downstream of my terminal SNP. I am negative for their branch defining SNPs! According to the haplogroup project administrator I don't share an ancestor with these 2 individuals until roughly 1,850 years ago!

                      Patience is key with genetic genealogy (and genealogy in general). It's only a matter of time until something comes along, just how long is that wait?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                        That's interesting, I see a fair amount of FTDNA banners on various websites when I'm digging for genealogically relevant things. Perhaps it is a locality thing or related to our ISPs?
                        Targeted banner ads are derived from cookies.

                        Clear your browser cache and cookies after visiting FTDNA and see if the same banner ads still appear on other websites.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Transfers? What transfers?
                          Which companies’ Y-DNA results qualify for the current transfer offer?
                          www.familytreedna.com/learn/imports/transfer-y-dna-results/companies-y-dna-results-qualify-current-transfer-offer/

                          Y-DNA results from any company that uses Sorenson Labs qualify for the current Y-DNA Transfer program. These include:
                          • DNA Ancestry “Ancestry.com” (beginning with 2008)
                          • Genetree
                          • Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation “SMGF”



                          I cannot imagine Y-DNA transfers to be anything but a rarity.


                          Mr. W.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by spruithean View Post
                            I know the feeling of low matches........

                            My Big Y matches are well, underwhelming,......

                            Patience is key with genetic genealogy (and genealogy in general). It's only a matter of time until something comes along, just how long is that wait?
                            Oh yes, patience. Such a lonely word, since 1979, trying to break down brick walls. I went in with both eyes open, but did expect a clue. Or two. Nope. From Y111, BigY and confirmed via YFull, I'm still about 3000 years from my goal. And recently, from another UK test, my regional sub group is about 40% Italy, where I've always been either UK or close Western Europe.

                            But this thread was just about the plethora of 25 marker daily results, not even close to GD 0, with nothing coming of them. I've decided to not be notified of 25s, because I now hold them with the same regard as the 12s which are useless.

                            I have to remind myself that DNA testing helps the wider scientific community, lest I feel that all my hard earned cash has been spent on a useless endevour when it could have been spent on getting more paper proof.

                            Thanks, all. Onwards and upwards.

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