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  • #31
    Things have come to a pretty pass

    Is it time for a cuppa tea (or coffee) again?

    Mr W, are you still offering cheesecake or pastries?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Fern View Post
      Is it time for a cuppa tea (or coffee) again?

      Mr W, are you still offering cheesecake or pastries?
      I will start my Friday morning with baking of a cheesecake.

      But I still have remnants of a traditional Central European poppy seed roll generously covered with candied fruits and icing with a hint of lemon juice.

      I am sorry for my delay in responding, I had to verify in person that its quality did not diminish over last couple of days...


      Mr. W.

      P.S.
      Nowadays, in Central Europe (Austria, Czechia, Germany, Poland etc.), poppy seeds sold for baking purposes come from Papaver somniferum cultivars that have no or very low alkaloid contents. Such cultivars were gradually introduced starting in early 1980s, in a response to an opioid crisis due to a sudden proliferation of extremely cheap and unbelievingly simple methods of opiate extraction from traditional Papaver somniferum cultivars. In Canada and in the US, such poppy seeds are available (canned!) in stores selling imported Central European food items.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Carpathian View Post
        Mockery? No. Questioning? YES. Questioning is the foundation of academic inquiry. Good scholarship and protection of one's reputation requires integrity and responsibility that what you publish is proven. The act of questioning seems to bother you.

        Whether one chooses to publish their trees in a public site or not is a personal decision. Don't mock those who prefer not to "share" their research with the world at large. I now see more 'locked' trees on Ancestry than ever. That is probably being done increasingly to prevent others from taking trees and publishing them as their own.
        I never said the act of questioning bothers me.

        IMO, all the locking away of trees, makes things a lot more difficult. It makes it harder to know which of a thousand different matches to take the time to contact. And potentially very helpful clues for people may be locked away. EVen a tree that has some stuff wrong on it, can still end up being helpful.

        Comment


        • #34
          [QUOTE=wombat;450855]
          I never said the act of questioning bothers me.
          Here is what you did say, obviously in reference to me:

          Originally Posted by wombat
          And it seems a bit odd for someone to mock people who make giant trees and question the trees when they are free and open and share them when they themselves are hide everything away.
          Now this:

          IMO, all the locking away of trees, makes things a lot more difficult.
          "Locking away of trees?" Excuse me, but do you consider anything that you feel that you are entitled to must automatically be provided to you, lest you consider it to be "locked away" from you? Apparently so. Every schoolchild knows that doing your own homework is much more difficult than is copying the answers from someone else.

          It makes it harder to know which of a thousand different matches to take the time to contact. And potentially very helpful clues for people may be locked away. EVen a tree that has some stuff wrong on it, can still end up being helpful.
          You are contending that "EVen a tree that has some stuff wrong on it, can still end up being helpful." Helpful to whom? To those such as you who apparently know little, seek to gain, yet contribute nothing of value? As I've said previously, this usually amounts to "the blind leading the blind". Actually, this attitude as expressed is more a situation of "beggar thy neighbor".

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          • #35
            1. why must it always be charlemagne?
            lots of other royal houses out there.

            2. i've seen a tree on here that included mark antony, he of ancient rome. good luck with the trail on that one.

            3.
            Originally posted by SuzeSoCal View Post
            Finally, my lines get to Eastern Europe in a hurry. There are persons from there that I'm almost 100% confident have my ancestors in their trees. But I won't add them to my tree. (...)
            Bottom line: I don't think it's good to tempt lazy/or intellectually weak persons with trees that have nothing to back them up.
            so what are you saying? that people from eastern europe are intellectually too weak to do proper genealogical research? that is what it sounds like you are saying.

            Comment


            • #36
              It's a sickness but....

              Originally posted by georgian1950 View Post
              When they get up in the tens of thousands, I regard it as a sickness.
              My main database has over 20,000 names. Yes, it's a sickness. I research my cousins' ancestry, my wife's cousins', my wife's half-sister's, etc. Sometimes I will follow these families up to the original immigrant then back down all the branches doing a full surname study. However, I would not upload 20,000 names to FamilyTreeDNA. For that, I have a pared down GEDCOM of just the ancestors and their siblings, limited to 12 generations* and stripped of any adoptive parents. Just the subject's genetic line.

              *12 generations happens to be the limit of my knowledge of my paternal and maternal lines.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kohlehydrat View Post
                1. why must it always be charlemagne?
                lots of other royal houses out there.

                2. i've seen a tree on here that included mark antony, he of ancient rome. good luck with the trail on that one.

                3.

                so what are you saying? that people from eastern europe are intellectually too weak to do proper genealogical research? that is what it sounds like you are saying.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Kohlehydrat View Post
                  1. why must it always be charlemagne?
                  lots of other royal houses out there.

                  2. i've seen a tree on here that included mark antony, he of ancient rome. good luck with the trail on that one.

                  3.

                  so what are you saying? that people from eastern europe are intellectually too weak to do proper genealogical research? that is what it sounds like you are saying.
                  No-- I'm not saying people from Eastern Europe are too intellectually weak AT ALL. The persons in Eastern Europe that I'm fairly confident have well-researched trees (not necessary big) are NOT the ones I have an issue with. I won't copy their research, but can gain some clues to do my own.

                  That I wrote separate paragraphs in post #23 above illustrates what I meant.

                  In my case, the person(s) with the BIG TREES have the nonsense that clearly doesn't pass muster. Their junk has been copied by others. In another instance, Family Search has added relationships that are incorrect, without a scrap of source documentation. Those are the persons that I find intellectually weak/lazy/whatever who post trees that tempt others. And, BTW, I have no reason to believe that those doing the junk trees are Eastern European. I was doing a "compare and contrast" of the varying quality/quantity of info posted -- NOT opining on brainpower or laziness of ethnic groups. Which perhaps you may have understood all along.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SuzeSoCal View Post
                    Which perhaps you may have understood all along.
                    no, or i wouldn't have asked. sorry, i misunderstood you. i have no hidden or otherwise agenda, i am just curious about other people's methodology and reasoning and am still wondering why you would not include (with their permission of course) an eastern european's research if it is well-founded. many archives that survived the times behind the iron curtain and were transferred between countries are being accessed in recent years for the first time by people who know how to deal with the circumstances. i have had a major breakthrough on my tree because recently polish armenians have been painstakingly researching their bukovina families and have gained access to archives i wouldn't get at. i wouldn't pass that up for the world but then i am interested in getting as far back up every line as i can get.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Kohlehydrat View Post
                      no, or i wouldn't have asked. sorry, i misunderstood you. i have no hidden or otherwise agenda, i am just curious about other people's methodology and reasoning and am still wondering why you would not include (with their permission of course) an eastern european's research if it is well-founded. many archives that survived the times behind the iron curtain and were transferred between countries are being accessed in recent years for the first time by people who know how to deal with the circumstances. i have had a major breakthrough on my tree because recently polish armenians have been painstakingly researching their bukovina families and have gained access to archives i wouldn't get at. i wouldn't pass that up for the world but then i am interested in getting as far back up every line as i can get.
                      No problem Kohlehydrat.
                      As far as why I'm not at this time including the EE's research (actually there are 2 individuals who have complementary research) it's because they cite film records so I can verify the info for myself. I was stalled on that branch for so long that I can be patient until I get to it.

                      I understand your excitement with access to previously unavailable records from behind the Iron Curtain. I have a research problem that is pressing for me. One set of my grandparents were born in the Russian Empire that is now Belarus. For years I have tried to get basic trees constructed for my grandparents. My dad said X, my aunt (who knew the most) said Y, another uncle said Z, etc. One of the daughters of the aunt who knew inherited the family photos and documents AND THREW THEM AWAY because "they were old and everyone just gets everything from the internet".

                      So now, I'm reduced to begging a cousin who can kind of communicate on Facebook with our grandfather's nephew in Belarus. The concept of just getting the names and possible birth order of my GF's siblings has been more daunting than I think it should be.

                      I have many matches on FF that I'm fairly certain are in Eastern Europe; but none of my 5 remaining aunts and uncles in the US are interested in dna testing.

                      So I understand completely you using whatever you can get your hands on.

                      Sorry for the long post.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by SuzeSoCal View Post
                        One of the daughters of the aunt who knew inherited the family photos and documents AND THREW THEM AWAY because "they were old and everyone just gets everything from the internet".
                        I can never understand that way of thinking. So many people inherit things, or have the duty to clean out someone's home and possessions, and never think of asking the other relatives (relatives they are on good terms with, not even estranged relatives!) if they would like such papers and photos, or know another relative who would. It's just straight to the trashcan. No matter even if it is the husband that dies, and the wife throws it out, not asking their own children if they'd like to have the stuff; or another surviving spouse doesn't ask her deceased spouse's sibling's family who literally are living around the corner if they would be interested in any of it. It just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like common courtesy to ask others if they want to have something from a loved deceased relative, if the inheritor doesn't want it.

                        As for getting everything from the internet, how does that work with personal letters and family photos for which there is only one original, the one(s) that they have possession of and are throwing out? They are selfishly not thinking it through. It's all about them, and getting the chore of disposal out of the way as quickly as possible. Maybe an interested relative would be glad to assist with some of the cleaning out of other things, if they could have the papers/photos/etc.

                        Ok, end of that rant!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Yes, KATM.
                          Selfish and not thinking it through at all.

                          I do have one bright story though. My husband's grandmother was a wonderful family historian. She died and as the years went on, the widowed grandfather had a girlfriend. Many yrs later, he dies and wills her the contents of the house (not thinking about the family memorabilia and other items). Well, long story short, an agreement was reached that some items inside the house would be given to the family. I was present, but since I wasn't blood family, I was only allowed in the garage. So I'm waiting in the garage and I get this strange urge to go over to the recycling bins. I investigate, and hidden under the bins was a trunk. BINGO! The trunk was full of old family docs, photos, etc. So the executor of the estate had to make a ruling on the spot and he decided that since the trunk was in the garage, not the house, that my husband's family could have it. And I can tell you 100% that the girlfriend was not a nice person and would've chucked the trunk if I hadn't found it. Hope she had fun selling the old furniture and appliances!

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                          • #43
                            Wow! How fortuitous that you were there and observant! Kudos to you.

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                            • #44
                              Commenting on the above posts from KATM and SuzeSoCal. Yes, it does happen quite often.

                              One of the reasons things get thrown away is that the rest of family did not express a steady interest in such items. And to make things worse, they were often very interested, but always knew that the matriarch or patriarch of family keeps that stuff, so they do not have to! Or the family was interested, while trying to be nice and did not ask for a transfer or inclusion in a will. Discussions about wills play well in the Hollywood comedies, but seldom in real life.

                              An unexpected death, a need to move to a smaller place or liquidate on a short notice, it is so easy to forget about irreplaceable family treasures. In the wills I had seen in their entirety photo albums (etc.) were not listed in dispositions...

                              I can foresee another issue. People doing DNA testing, and then not leaving information about it (where tested and login/password) in their wills. I have a beneficiary for my DNA test here, and he knows about that and has access. Do you?


                              Mr. W.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                [QUOTE=dna;451012]
                                Commenting on the above posts from KATM and SuzeSoCal. Yes, it does happen quite often.

                                One of the reasons things get thrown away is that the rest of family did not express a steady interest in such items.
                                Yes, indeed. But in these times societal pressures tend to influence people as much or more than their families do. We live in a consumer driven society fueled by disposable items- flip the cards, flip the house, flip the spouse, flip the kids, flip the pets - all are now considered disposable objects.

                                Then there is the issue of grief and denial soon after a death. When someone in any family dies it leaves a vacuum, and those who become in control of the estate might want to throw everything in the trash immediately, to try to forget about the death and put it behind them ASAP. Sadly, it often happens.

                                An unexpected death, a need to move to a smaller place or liquidate on a short notice, it is so easy to forget about irreplaceable family treasures. In the wills I had seen in their entirety photo albums (etc.) were not listed in dispositions...
                                In families that understand that there are items of worth that are intangible and irreplaceable, they already realize and know that someone in the family has done genealogical research, and they know where the results of the research are located. That's what occurs in families that care about such things and act responsibly. Perhaps families that are unwilling to act responsibly and care about passing them on to those who might also care deserve to lose their heritage. When records and memorabilia become lost, it is because neither the keeper nor an heir cared enough to recognize and preserve or protect them while the keeper of them was still alive.

                                Ultimately all will eventually be swept away and forgotten, no matter what we do. But temporarily, we try to preserve memories and family history - like holding our finger in the hole of the dike of time, so as to prevent it from bursting and sweeping everything away.

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