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Haplogroup verse Terminal SNP

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  • Haplogroup verse Terminal SNP

    to clarify and help people identify which SNP pack they should order the Y-DNA match list should differentiate between Haplogroup and terminal SNP.

    For example, when examine my 37- match list there are 5 individuals on my list who had done either the L-21 pack or the Z251 pack or the full Y....

    All 5 of my matches who have tested SNPs have the Haplogroup shown as either Z251, R-BY3231 , R-A2159, R-Z18092 or R-BY13975

    yet we are all L-21 and Z251...and FTDNA knows this.

    since the list already has a column for terminal SNP why do they insist of using the terminal SNP as the haplogroup ? If they used the haplogroup column to indicate the broader Haplogroup more people would know which SNP pack to get and it would cause less confusion. My closest match has tested for L-21 and he assumes we are different haplogroups because I did the L-21 pack and now show as haplogroup Z18092.

    why have 2 columns which have identical information ? Sometimes the terminal SNP is not even designated as an official haplogroup yet, as the terminal SNP may be just 300 years old and have 2 known samples, yet this is listed as their haplogroup. it would be more helpful to use the haplogroup column to indicate the broader haplogroup with the terminal SNP used to further define the subclades.

  • #2
    You make a very good point. The relationships of haplogroups and subclades can be confusing to many people who are just starting SNP testing. Your suggestion would help to lessen that confusion.

    Hopefully, FTDNA will implement what you're suggesting.


    • #3
      and it would save people money...looking at my matches it would be very time consuming to try and discover the haplogroup of my matches based on their terminal SNP (since this is also listed as their haplogroup). And why would they have 2 columns of data which both show the same date - the terminal SNP. It is redundant, unhelpful, and confusing.


      • #4
        Have you joined a y-dna project for your haplogroup? The admins could probably help you.


        • #5
          Yes , I am in several haplogroup projects. They can be helpful. I was not looking for help, just trying to make FTDNA more user friendly, especially for those not in any projects.

          Many people do not join haplogroup projects. Of my 22 matches at 67-markers only 1 is in the L-21 project although 2 are in the z251 project.

          All 22 of my matches at 67-markers I assume are L-21 (this haplogroup is common and dates back over 4,200 years). Only 2 of my 67-marker matches are in the R1b project, which is even broader and dates back much further.


          • #6
            The old style naming didn't have this disadvantage but it did have several others.

            In the Haplogroup column they do tell you the major group. R- as an example. If they go any farther out the branch than that others could have the same complaint you have.


            • #7

              a simple and educational approach would be to use the Haplogroup column to list the broad haplogroup...such as L-21 and then list the terminal SNP in the terminal SNP column instead of listing the terminal SNP in both columns. To keep it easy , use the same haplogroup designations as 23andme..thus helping the thousands of people who have transferred their data here.

              L-21 is one a dozen of the broad subclades of R1b (M343+ and M269+) along with DF27 and U152 etc..


              • #8
                Under each letter haplogroup they (probably should be larger than just FTDNA) could assign a 2nd letter to major subgroups, up to 26. So L21 could be A, U106 could be B, P312 could be C, U152 = D, L2 = E, DF27 = F, V88 = G, etc. Have to find a way to make it fair and useful.

                Then I'd be
                RCDE-BY4242 (so you'd know R for the major haplogroup, and C, D and E are assigned groups within it)
                or simplified too

                It could even work with long form names: RCDE1b2a1


                • #9

                  I like the idea of using broader haplogroup labels for the haplogroup column and keeping the terminal SNP column as it is.

                  often the terminal SNP only has 2 confirmed individuals in all of FTDNA , and it may not even be a recognized haplogroup yet, and they are often less than 500 years old. While the broader haplogroups usually date back over 3000 years and have thousands of FTDNA members. Some of the so-called haplogroups among my brothers matches are not actually recognized haplogroups. so it is misleading to have the terminal SNP listed as the haplogroup when FTDNA knows the actual recognized haplogroup they are in.

                  Maybe the haplogroup column should be reserved for broad haplogrouos which are at least 3,000 years old. Thus people will understand these broad haplogroups are for deep ancestry not genealogy.