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  • New (Useless) Y Match Notice

    I got up this morning and checked my emails. There was a notice of a new Y-67 match. Since I had never had one at 67 markers, I was eager to see who it was. Well, I checked and it is a match with a genetic distance of 7. It might was well be a match to Fred Flintstone, so why bother even matching?

    Well, at least it looks like IT is trying to tweak the software.

  • #2
    Why useless?

    There was a case reported in the forum when son/father were found to have the distance of 2. Cousins can have GD of 3, etc...

    He is still matching you with 60 markers and people can be happy finding anyone matching with 37 markers

    W. (Mr.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 381858 View Post
      I got up this morning and checked my emails. There was a notice of a new Y-67 match. Since I had never had one at 67 markers, I was eager to see who it was. Well, I checked and it is a match with a genetic distance of 7. It might was well be a match to Fred Flintstone, so why bother even matching?

      Well, at least it looks like IT is trying to tweak the software.
      I don't know what is your problem. I will not call it useless. It's a clue. And why did you think it's the IT trying to tweak the software ? If you read the FTDNA learning center, then it clearly state that FTDNA will show Genetic Distance 0-7 in Y-67 matches. It's always like that.

      https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...-matches-page/







      And no, It's far from might be a match to Fred Flinstone.

      Comment


      • #4
        Y-67

        I appreciate the feedback.

        Let me add this:

        I have a zero distance match at 12 markers with my surname. While 0 at 12 might otherwise mean too much (although it is, as you put it, a clue), with me it does because he and I have a very unusual marker at one location (about 1-2% of my haplogroup). Yet, the most recent common ancestor is beyond 5 generations back. What this suggests to me is that my first 12 markers have not mutated for nearly 200 years. Therefore, someone who is a distance of 7 (admittedly at 67 markers) would seem to be pretty far back.

        Thoughts?

        Comment


        • #5
          Please open https://www.familytreedna.com/my/advanced-matches.aspx (that is myFTDNA -> Tools and Apps -> Advanced Matching) select only Y-DNA12, change Results Per Page to 500, then Run Report. Verify whether your Y-DNA67 match is on the list.

          W. (Mr.)

          P.S.
          This is where SNP testing helps. Has your match done SNP testing?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dna View Post
            Please open https://www.familytreedna.com/my/advanced-matches.aspx (that is myFTDNA -> Tools and Apps -> Advanced Matching) select only Y-DNA12, change Results Per Page to 500, then Run Report. Verify whether your Y-DNA67 match is on the list.

            W. (Mr.)

            P.S.
            This is where SNP testing helps. Has your match done SNP testing?
            To add to dna's post, if this match has disabled 12 marker matching, he will be listed in your advanced matching list with only his last name shown (private).

            To see private matches, sort the yDNA column to show arrow pointing down after report is run, this will place all of the private matches at the top of your list. Private matches are omitted from CVS/Excel download, so you manually have to view online in advanced matching
            Last edited by prairielad; 12 July 2015, 03:34 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Further question on using advance search tool?

              Thanks very much for posting how to use the advanced match tool to find ychrome matches who have turned off seeing matches at lower levels like 12 or 25. I see how these names are returned in a different format (just last name, no hyperlink etc), but I have a question about all the names that have "x" in the boxes next to their names. A number have numbers displayed indicating genetic distances, but alot of these just have "x" for the level of test taken that say "no match" when you hover over the "x". Why are these no match showing up ( particularly where all the boxes for level of test taken have an "x"? Are these somehow matches who don't meet the genetic distance criteria at each level but are included for some other reason? (The explanation for advanced match tool is very short and doesn't even indicate that it would show information on matches that have turned off lower level matches!)
              Last edited by Smsitton; 13 July 2015, 08:02 AM. Reason: Typo

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Smsitton View Post
                Thanks very much for posting how to use the advanced match tool to find ychrome matches who have turned off seeing matches at lower levels like 12 or 25. I see how these names are returned in a different format (just last name, no hyperlink etc), but I have a question about all the names that have "x" in the boxes next to their names. A number have numbers displayed indicating genetic distances, but alot of these just have "x" for the level of test taken that say "no match" when you hover over the "x". Why are these no match showing up ( particularly where all the boxes for level of test taken have an "x"? Are these somehow matches who don't meet the genetic distance criteria at each level but are included for some other reason? (The explanation for advanced match tool is very short and doesn't even indicate that it would show information on matches that have turned off lower level matches!)
                A dash (-) means they have not tested to that level (see level of testing by non privatized names)

                An x means they have tested to that level but do not match.

                Although I am not sure on private matches, in regards to yDNA, if they will show the Genetic Distance or by default show an X.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by prairielad View Post
                  A dash (-) means they have not tested to that level (see level of testing by non privatized names)

                  An x means they have tested to that level but do not match.

                  Although I am not sure on private matches, in regards to yDNA, if they will show the Genetic Distance or by default show an X.
                  A dash can also mean that an individual did not have that type of the test.

                  Please see my next post for an explanation of “x” in the context of Y-DNA Advanced Matching.

                  W. (Mr.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Smsitton View Post
                    Thanks very much for posting how to use the advanced match tool to find ychrome matches who have turned off seeing matches at lower levels like 12 or 25. I see how these names are returned in a different format (just last name, no hyperlink etc), but I have a question about all the names that have "x" in the boxes next to their names. A number have numbers displayed indicating genetic distances, but alot of these just have "x" for the level of test taken that say "no match" when you hover over the "x". Why are these no match showing up ( particularly where all the boxes for level of test taken have an "x"? Are these somehow matches who don't meet the genetic distance criteria at each level but are included for some other reason? (The explanation for advanced match tool is very short and doesn't even indicate that it would show information on matches that have turned off lower level matches!)
                    I sighed deeply, counted to 100...

                    Thank you Smsitton, these are good questions. The problem is that FTDNA should not be giving a message Not A Match, but a message like This person has matching turned off at this level. “Not A Match” is misleading, as obviously he is a match! With “x” you just do not know how close the match is.

                    At 12 markers, “x” means that he is at GD=0, but possibly GD=1, if he is in the same project as you.

                    At any other level, “x” means that he is a match, but as he decided to not participate in matching at that level, FTDNA would not tell you his Genetic Distance (GD) to you. You only know that:
                    • for 25 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 2,
                    • for 37 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 4,
                    • for 67 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 7,
                    • for 111 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 10.


                    W. (Mr.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you, W. (Mr.)!

                      That is very enlightening. For everyone who puzzles over why they "don't have any" matches at various levels, this tool can at least show that you may actually have matches but they have turned off matching -- I don't think it is possible to figure out which level the match might be valid at if all four columns (12-111) are marked with an "x", and they might be all 12s, but still interesting (esp if the surname of the owner is one you are interested in seeing). I think a lot of people know that turning off the match/email option at various levels will eliminate these matches from your general match list, but the fact that you can see some minimal information on who these matches are is quite interesting!

                      It does seem crazy that FTDNA would have the "x" mean "no match" when there is no reason you would be seeing these names on this list if they weren't somehow matches.

                      Many thanks again for first calling attention to the ability to retrieve this list via the advanced matching tool and then revealing the answer to my question about these "x"s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        @Smsitton

                        Originally posted by Smsitton View Post
                        Thank you, W. (Mr.)!

                        That is very enlightening. For everyone who puzzles over why they "don't have any" matches at various levels, this tool can at least show that you may actually have matches but they have turned off matching -- I don't think it is possible to figure out which level the match might be valid at if all four columns (12-111) are marked with an "x", and they might be all 12s, but still interesting (esp if the surname of the owner is one you are interested in seeing). I think a lot of people know that turning off the match/email option at various levels will eliminate these matches from your general match list, but the fact that you can see some minimal information on who these matches are is quite interesting!

                        It does seem crazy that FTDNA would have the "x" mean "no match" when there is no reason you would be seeing these names on this list if they weren't somehow matches.

                        Many thanks again for first calling attention to the ability to retrieve this list via the advanced matching tool and then revealing the answer to my question about these "x"s
                        I do not know what else possibly be presented in inconsistent manner, so I am always recommending to Run Report with only one option selected. That is selecting only either Y-DNA12 or Y-DNA25 or Y-DNA37 or Y-DNA67 or Y-DNA111, as then the results are easier to analyze. And one can open a new tab (in a browser) for each level of marker matches.

                        Mr. W.

                        P.S.
                        Talking about inconsistencies...
                        In myFTDNA drop-down menu, the same target page is listed under two different names
                        • Advanced Matches
                        • Advanced Matching

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dna View Post
                          I sighed deeply, counted to 100...

                          Thank you Smsitton, these are good questions. The problem is that FTDNA should not be giving a message Not A Match, but a message like This person has matching turned off at this level. “Not A Match” is misleading, as obviously he is a match! With “x” you just do not know how close the match is.

                          At 12 markers, “x” means that he is at GD=0, but possibly GD=1, if he is in the same project as you.

                          At any other level, “x” means that he is a match, but as he decided to not participate in matching at that level, FTDNA would not tell you his Genetic Distance (GD) to you. You only know that:
                          • for 25 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 2,
                          • for 37 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 4,
                          • for 67 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 7,
                          • for 111 markers, your GD to him could be from 0 to 10.


                          W. (Mr.)
                          This is true, X is a match on private matches, as long as you are running advanced matching on a specific level only

                          as you stated in following post about running on specific level

                          Originally posted by dna View Post
                          I do not know what else possibly be presented in inconsistent manner, so I am always recommending to Run Report with only one option selected. That is selecting only either Y-DNA12 or Y-DNA25 or Y-DNA37 or Y-DNA67 or Y-DNA111, as then the results are easier to analyze. And one can open a new tab (in a browser) for each level of marker matches.
                          Mr. W.

                          P.S.
                          Talking about inconsistencies...
                          In myFTDNA drop-down menu, the same target page is listed under two different names
                          • Advanced Matches
                          • Advanced Matching
                          But if you are running it on multiple levels (selected multiple levels)some X's will actually mean you are not matching within the accepted GD for that level

                          See attachment of advanced matching on all yDNA. Some private matches show an X all the way up to the 111 level. Some levels will be a true No Match, while others will be a match with unlisted GD. In this case these private matches only show up on yDNA 12 advanced matching when it is run on each individual levels. All other levels do not show any of these private names when advanced matching is run on those specific levels.

                          Don't understand why they wouldn't show GD on yDNA on private matches, they show relationship range for Family Finder matches that have privatized, but most private matches have only yDNA 12 and yDNA 25 disabled. Maximum GD they can have is a GD of 1 on yDNA 12 or a GD of 2 on yDNA 25
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by prairielad; 13 July 2015, 07:04 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Thank you prairielad!

                            Mr. W.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Astounded

                              Well, I am still not sure I understand this thread completely with regards to extrapolating level of match when there is an X.

                              But I just ran the lone Y-67 test I have under management so far (closest "public" match for that kit is GD1 at 25 markers, nothing above 25) through various configurations of advanced matches. Have now discovered just how many more matches there actually are that FTDNA has not been showing and not just because the match did not meet the company standard. There are more private matches than public ones for my Y tester.

                              What is this, 23andMe??? What is the point of "private" matches with Xs given instead of showing us the GD? Are the privatized kits usually part of surname projects or inquiries into questionable paternity? Why so many private Y tests?

                              It would be awfully helpful if country of most distant paternal origin were included in the columns, not just names and haplos, btw.

                              I did recognize quite a few of the "private" Y tests from running my Y tester over at Ysearch, just like so many of my kits' anonymous 23 matches can be found with full name and email at Gedmatch.

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