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  • So Disappointed

    Just want to grumble a little. I had two Y 67 marker tests run, one on my husband, the other on my only brother. For my husband we are trying to verify his biological father. For my brother we are trying to further our research on my great grandfather. Both my husband and myself/brother have extremely common surnames. For husband I'm referring to the name of the man he was told was his biological father, which includes two NPEs (his and a great grandfather). I feel confident in my own surname and know the two surnames I'm expecting with my husband.

    So, my disappointment comes from no matches, period, for husband at the 67 marker level, two distant matches at 37 markers, and many matches at 12 marker level, but none at either surname (and does 12 markers even matter when nothing above that?). Joined both surname projects and he doesn't match the line researched.

    Brother: common surname, been in the States since the beginning of time here, not one surname match at all, doesn't match anyone on surname project (a Pioneer Surname project, I believe it's called).

    For what it's worth, husband's Haplogroup is well represented by the expected surname project members and brother's Haplogroup is also represented by our surname project members. That's my silver lining, and my grumble is over.

  • #2
    I think it's normal to feel let down when you've waited for a long time for results and it isn't what you'd hoped for (a match.) My grandfather is part of a very common lineage, R-L21 and had one solitary 12 marker match, a surname match, but that individual had died 2 years before. A couple years later another surname match showed up, shared 3rd great grandfather, and he agreed to work with me via snp testing to confirm the match. Everything got confirmed, even came up as an autosomal match, which is really gratifying considering my grandfather's dad was an orphan.

    My son, on the other hand, has hundreds of 12 marker matches but no surname match. It's an uncommon surname, so I'm not surprised, and the location for the branch checks out. I really wasn't looking to confirm paternity for that line and I've actually learned some interesting things about the lineage and surname. Frankly, it's turned into a fun little hobby of testing snp's and theorizing how the surname got connected to it.

    Anyway, point is, don't give up. New people are testing every day. You can get more matches if you join projects. I did find a surname match for my son in one of the project's and he even matches the same basic lineage, R-L226, but he must be off enough markers to not show up on my son's match list. I suppose, that's interesting in itself since it tells me the surname and lineage have been linked long enough to have amassed enough differences to not match here.

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    • #3
      Sadly, our results "matches" are limited by those who test. I too have had a hard time matching people of what I believed to be my largest family line. I am fortunate that I was able to match a descendent of the patriarch I was trying to confirm, but I truly expected to see many matches with my maiden surname and that just hasn't happened! I haven't found even one match that might be part of my mom's dad's line which is driving me crazy. Fortunately, I am fairly confident of our ancestral lines for the last could generations at least.

      I suggest looking for cousins to test. Cousins of your husband's "known" dad at the very least, and if possible cousins of the "possible" dad. Or aunts/uncles/grandparents if available. Waiting for someone to someday test who matches just may never happen without your intervention. Do the same with your own family members as well. I have been pleasantly pleased with my families willingness to test. My brother said no (sort of, he never answered), but both my parents were willing to test, my sister would if she had the money (and I am broke right as far as testing resources go), and my grandfather just agreed to do it as well. (also tested my spouse and kids... they wanted to participate too). For most of them, the allure is seeing their ethnic breakdown, so that is the first thing I presented to my parents. My dad doesn't care, but he did it because I wanted him to. My grandpa is probably very curious, I know my mom is!

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      • #4
        I manage a kit for a donor in my Thompson line and just got the results back for Y-67, with the same results. Not only were there no matches at 67, there was only one Thompson at 37 STR with a GD of 1 (with no tree posted).

        The remaining matches were not even named Thompson. In fact, I had more Lehman/Layman/Laymon 3 people, all with GD of 4) than I had Thompson (1).

        So now, I'm stuck wondering if it was a lab error, bad sample, or simply whether that few people in such a common surname group have done DNA testing.

        Part, if not most, of the problem is everyone needs to test to the same level, and that level needs to be at least 67 markers, preferably 111.

        I know the argument about expense, but if you're testing 12, 25, or possibly even 37 STR for anything except "I'm not really sure what my surname might be" or "Is my surname what I thought it was", you're wasting your money, in my opinion.

        Testing at that level seems unlikely to provide genealogical information with any sort of fine detail.
        Last edited by Uncle Lucifer; 8 July 2015, 06:26 PM.

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        • #5
          I rechecked my husband's matches and realized the match at 37 markers with a different last name has a GD of 0. If I understand it correctly, the two of them match on all 37 markers. Too bad that fellow didn't test more markers.

          I have been in contact with three of the adult children of the potential biological father, so I'm not ruling out the possibility one of the sons will test. He said he would, but I've heard nothing back from any of them in months.

          As for my own family, my brother is the only male descendant of my great grandfather who was willing to test. My father was an only child and he is now deceased. He had male cousins, but they aren't willing to test.

          Maybe someone here will know the answer to my question...is there anywhere online that will give me the variations of surnames? I noticed one name in particular that popped up on my brother's matches several times and when I entered that name as an ancestral name in the search field of his FF matches, the people who came up (and there were 7 screens of them) matched our surname. I'm wondering if that name is a variation of mine. I sometimes see bold print names (that I don't have in my ancestry) listed in matches' ancestral names. Does FTDNA have a list of surname variations they use?

          I'm not giving up. I've joined the three surname projects (two for husband's potential surnames and my own surname). I'd join others if I knew what names to try. lol

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          • #6
            Forgive me if I mentioned this before, but get Family Finders for whomever you can too. This way, even if you can't get direct male matches, you can start working with female matches too. Especially if it is the more recent generations you are trying to figure out. I am female, so I have the FF and mtDNA. I find the mtDNA to be next to useless right now. I had to get my dad for his FF and yDNA. Like I said, the yDNA did find 1 match that I needed to help confirm that ancestor... but that same person does not show up on FF (he didn't test, but he might be too distant to show up anyway). I am having much more luck with the family finder than any other tests. I have found connections to 3 of my grandparents that I wouldn't have found otherwise. I know your main goal is these paternal lines, but if you can find family finder matches with similar family trees you can accomplish a lot. Also, FF is more affordable for people to decide to do it. If you are truly desperate, you might even want to consider buying a kit for someone (FF or yDNA). I had someone buy FF's for my dad and grandpa for me because they were interested in their connection to my line. It has opened many doors to finding out my past and hopefully pays off for them too. They match me and my dad, waiting on my grandpa but I think that will be a match too.
            Last edited by jsarnacki; 8 July 2015, 07:14 PM.

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            • #7
              Uncle Lucifer, I missed your reply above. I agree with your assessment of not being able to get much from a 37 or less marker test. That's why I started at 67. I knew it would take awhile for results and I didn't want to wait twice. Now, my husband has a full match at 37 (that's all the other guy tested) and the email address for him doesn't work.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jsarnacki View Post
                Forgive me if I mentioned this before, but get Family Finders for whomever you can too. This way, even if you can't get direct male matches, you can start working with female matches too. Especially if it is the more recent generations you are trying to figure out. I am female, so I have the FF and mtDNA. I find the mtDNA to be next to useless right now. I had to get my dad for his FF and yDNA. Like I said, the yDNA did find 1 match that I needed to help confirm that ancestor... but that same person does not show up on FF (he didn't test, but he might be too distant to show up anyway). I am having much more luck with the family finder than any other tests. I have found connections to 3 of my grandparents that I wouldn't have found otherwise. I know your main goal is these paternal lines, but if you can find family finder matches with similar family trees you can accomplish a lot. Also, FF is more affordable for people to decide to do it. If you are truly desperate, you might even want to consider buying a kit for someone (FF or yDNA). I had someone buy FF's for my dad and grandpa for me because they were interested in their connection to my line. It has opened many doors to finding out my past and hopefully pays off for them too. They match me and my dad, waiting on my grandpa but I think that will be a match too.
                We started on Ancestry, uploaded raw DNA to both FTDNA and GEDmatch, then Y tested here and added FF to brother's. I am bouncing around the net all day trying to get results for one or both or any of us. Even have my daughters tested and they get more matches to husband's line than he does. Can't quite figure that out. How does a child have matches that neither parent has?

                Ah yes, bought an AncestryDNA test for the potential sister, at her suggestion. Once she received the kit she called to say she changed her mind about testing. Something about an attorney/friend told her not to test with an online company. A bit hesitant to buy tests for others at this point.

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                • #9
                  Gotcha! And yes, that would be frustrating. Did they at least send you back the unused kit? You could always use it for someone else. That was my backup plan for the FTDNA kit that we bought for my Grandpa. I sent it to my mom's house because my son was going there for the summer with the intention of them getting him to do it. He did, but if he hadn't, I would have given the kit to my sister or one of my many aunt/uncles. I would have had to repay the person who paid me to get him the kit, but at least it would have gotten used.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Renegade6008 View Post
                    [----] Even have my daughters tested and they get more matches to husband's line than he does. Can't quite figure that out. How does a child have matches that neither parent has?
                    In my opinion, you can safely ignore those extra matches.

                    Here is an official explanation from the Family Tree DNA Learning Center
                    I have tested my husband, our child, and myself. Why does our child have matches that neither parent has?
                    https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...either-parent/


                    Originally posted by Renegade6008 View Post
                    [----] bought an AncestryDNA test for the potential sister, at her suggestion. Once she received the kit she called to say she changed her mind about testing. Something about an attorney/friend told her not to test with an online company. A bit hesitant to buy tests for others at this point.
                    Let's hope she did not trash the collection kit. If she changes her mind in the months to come, the kit is still good to be used.

                    W. (Mr.)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jsarnacki View Post
                      Gotcha! And yes, that would be frustrating. Did they at least send you back the unused kit? You could always use it for someone else. That was my backup plan for the FTDNA kit that we bought for my Grandpa. I sent it to my mom's house because my son was going there for the summer with the intention of them getting him to do it. He did, but if he hadn't, I would have given the kit to my sister or one of my many aunt/uncles. I would have had to repay the person who paid me to get him the kit, but at least it would have gotten used.
                      No, she did not return the kit nor offer to pay us back. I have plenty of cousins I could have given that kit to. smh

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                      • #12
                        W, very interesting. One of the matches of one daughter is a descendant of a mutual ancestor of mine. She's in the 7-8 cousin range. The other daughter has several matches with ancestors on my husbands potential line that do not show up in his list of matches. These are all on Ancestry. I thought Ancestry was much more conservative about who they considered a match. The weird part, and probably has something to do with the explanation you referenced, these matches are also on MY list of matches, but I don't have mutual ancestors with them. They have mutual ancestors with my husband's potential paternal line. So far, I have not found any link from my tree to his, but then again his ancestry is a mystery to be solved. GEDmatch says we aren't related.

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                        • #13
                          For what it is worth, I have ZERO Y-DNA matches at any level, and my line is from Ireland and probably the UK before that (given their religion & location in Ireland in 1826), so I assumed I would have had matches, but I do not. I hope your male relatives get lots, & soon. I also hope the exact match is a precursor to more, or they fix their email...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Renegade6008 View Post
                            W, very interesting. One of the matches of one daughter is a descendant of a mutual ancestor of mine. She's in the 7-8 cousin range. The other daughter has several matches with ancestors on my husbands potential line that do not show up in his list of matches. These are all on Ancestry. I thought Ancestry was much more conservative about who they considered a match. The weird part, and probably has something to do with the explanation you referenced, these matches are also on MY list of matches, but I don't have mutual ancestors with them. They have mutual ancestors with my husband's potential paternal line. So far, I have not found any link from my tree to his, but then again his ancestry is a mystery to be solved. GEDmatch says we aren't related.
                            I cannot even phantom how many 7th and 8th cousins I have, must be in thousands :-)

                            With 7th or 8th cousins you would need to know all of your 128 or 256 ancestry lines. Do you know all of them? And the same for your match.

                            Mr. W.

                            P.S.
                            I wish I could edit my earlier post. I should have written: ignore, unless the Longest Block is larger than 10-12 cM.

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                            • #15
                              Lincoln, I know how disheartening it is to not have any matches. Here's hoping some of your matches test, because that's what it comes down to. We are at the mercy of others.

                              I can tell you it's not much better to have matches at the 12 marker level and not higher, or higher level matches one can't contact.

                              Good luck to you.

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