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  • Originally posted by crhfish View Post
    I now basically have no faith in any of these test results.
    One of the reasons that results are sometimes late is that FTDNA does have extremely good QA and accuracy for the test results. A lot of the anger that I've seen over the last 7 years is from people whose test results are completed much later than expected. My advice to FTDNA is to double or triple the estimate for when the results will be complete. People will then be happy if they get their results early instead of wondering if something is wrong when the results are 2 or 3 months late. It seems that most of the problems are about managing expectations on when results will be complete, and these should be easy things to fix.

    I've ordered several thousand dollars of tests, virtually all of them during sales, and most of those results have been delivered weeks or months late. I don't mind this because I knew that the estimated dates were not reliable, I was confident that the results would be accurate, and I saved money on the sales, so to me it was worth the extra wait. If FTDNA would provide conservative estimates of the time to complete the tests, I think this would help reduce much of the customer anger.

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    • I agree that might help a little, but really I think there's more to it than that.

      If their smaller competitors like YSEQ can turn around a SNP test in 5-7 days or an STR panel in two weeks with no less reliability, there's probably a more systemic problem at FTDNA than just underestimating wait times.

      Again, I really think that their operations and infrastructure just haven't kept pace with the growth of their sales. It almost seems like they're still operating like a startup fifteen years into the game. Maybe it's time to bring in a new COO who can get them up to the big leagues.

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      • I ordered an upgrade from 37 to 67 on December 2. Batch 599 and still waiting. It would be nice if they sent some sort of communication to everyone waiting. The first post in this thread gave me more info than FTDNA did.

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        • I'm kind of on the fence here. As a scientist in charge of a laboratory, I'm familiar with the sometimes competing priorities of almost excessive QA and turnaround times. I am also a customer of FTDNA and have been frustrated as hell at times about not getting my results in what I considered to be a timely fashion.

          At the same time, I think filing a complaint with the AG is perhaps a *bit* much for an expenditure involving what is essentially a hobby. I understand the annoyance, believe me.

          I'm the first guy to start drumming his fingers and sighing heavily when someone starts the laborious process of writing a paper check in the grocery line instead of using a debit card, thus adding an extra minute to my checkout time. I get it.

          But filing a complaint with a legal entity, especially a state attorney general is, in my opinion, a,as they would say in Texas, "a whole 'nuther thang..."

          That's opinion, not criticism, but I do know one thing for sure, when you provide a service, even if it's an amazingly high tech service that has broken down many brick walls for many people in the genealogical community and the longest, most viewed and replied to thread on your webpage involves crappy customer service, you've got a problem.

          Uncle Lucifer

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          • Originally posted by Uncle Lucifer View Post
            But filing a complaint with a legal entity, especially a state attorney general is, in my opinion, a,as they would say in Texas, "a whole 'nuther thang..."
            Do you have another idea, a better idea of how to force FTDNA to change things that need obviously to be changed?
            I fully support what crhfish is doing. So I say again and again thank you chrfish, because you are fighting the battle for all of us.

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            • LOL...I just think I heard the operative phrase.... "crappy customer service".

              How about some communication with honesty and integrity being the operative phrase. Don't give 'blanket' statements. Address each email and phone call on a personal 'one to one' basis.

              And, yes, I've spent thousands (just spent more today ). Sometimes satisfied and sometimes unsatisfied like the last six months.
              Last edited by Tenn4ever; 21 February 2015, 06:17 PM.

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              • Market forces, boycott and complain.

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                • Originally posted by E19463 View Post
                  Do you have another idea, a better idea of how to force FTDNA to change things that need obviously to be changed?
                  I fully support what crhfish is doing. So I say again and again thank you chrfish, because you are fighting the battle for all of us.
                  That's crux of the matter. There really isn't a good way to get a big company to do what it is supposed to without recourse to the legal system many times. On the other hand, I don't really believe that there is much likelihood of success in this case, because FTDNA does not promise fast turnaround times nor does it guarantee that results will be completed by the estimated completion date. On the other hand, it should give customers notice when supply issues affect the availability of a product.

                  I have only filed one complaint with my state's AG office and it had to do with a completely different company that was trying to force people into service contracts with an automatic contract renewal clause. The only problem was that in my state, there is a consumer protection law that mandates very specific notice requirements and so forth. Ultimately the contract was unenforceable.

                  I've had mixed feeling about FTDNA. They actually have completed some of my tests over the years before the specified estimated completion date. I also like the many features on the myFTDNA page. On the other hand, I have never understood the company's reticence in listening to project administrators when they point out errors on the haplotree page or its lack of communication and notification to customers when a problem arises such as the supply issue that forced the company to change its testing procedure.

                  I guess I also am sitting on the fence on this issue a bit, because I really no longer expect these tests to be completed in a timely manner. On the other hand, I haven't been waiting for five months like I had to for my deep clade test results -- but it sounds like some folks have been waiting that long. Honestly, five months is a long time to wait for a test that the company claims takes an average of about 6 weeks to complete. Five months is almost five times as long as the company claims it takes to process these str panel tests. The "poor sample" excuse can only account for so much extra time. If the company runs a sample and it does not produce results, then that person's test should go immediately to the front of the line and a new sample promptly obtained to ensure that it won't take over five months to complete the testing process.

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                  • Part of the problem is that FTDNA doesn't have competition. They basically have a monopoly and feel like they can do what they want without necessarily having good customer service.

                    Yes, Ancestry, probably has a bigger data base for the autosomal but they don't have any comparison tools. If they did have those tools then we would have some recourse. The CEO of Ancestry has said they are not getting those tools. My question is 'why'? Of course, they just gave up on their Y testing and mtDNA (but who really cares about that).

                    There's no problem with Ancestry's autosomal testing. I have tested with both and I have the raw dna from their results and those from FT on Gedmatch. They match centimorgan for centimorgan on every chromosome and the ethnicity is the same on the admixture tools (however, My Origins on FT does not have my NA but the dna tested on FT when run on Gedmatch gives the NA )

                    That's another thing. FTDNA needs to target the Native American population to fill out their data base.

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                    • I ordered Y DNA upgrade on 12/2 (37 to 67) and still waiting.

                      I ordered Ancestry Autosomal DNA tests on December 26th for several family members. Shipping to them, getting them to do the test, returning it and processing the results. Had results before the end of January. Downloaded the raw data and uploaded to FTDNA for $39 each. In both pools in about 5 weeks. I'm sure if I had ordered the family finder test I would still be waiting for my results. For this type of test I recommend bypassing FTDNA's slow lab and ordering from Ancestry then transfer.

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                      • Originally posted by JMSaxby View Post
                        I ordered Y DNA upgrade on 12/2 (37 to 67) and still waiting.

                        I ordered Ancestry Autosomal DNA tests on December 26th for several family members. Shipping to them, getting them to do the test, returning it and processing the results. Had results before the end of January. Downloaded the raw data and uploaded to FTDNA for $39 each. In both pools in about 5 weeks. I'm sure if I had ordered the family finder test I would still be waiting for my results. For this type of test I recommend bypassing FTDNA's slow lab and ordering from Ancestry then transfer.
                        Then upload the Ancestry raw dna to Gedmatch. I encourage my most promising matches on Ancestry to do that. It's free for most of the tools.

                        I still love FT but am so irritated with this delay on the Y tests with no direct personal explanation.

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                        • Originally posted by JMSaxby View Post
                          For this type of test I recommend bypassing FTDNA's slow lab and ordering from Ancestry then transfer.
                          That's a great idea but only if you live in the US or the few other countries that they've recently added. Ancestry doesn't ship to my country.

                          23andMe charges $92.95 just for shipping!!! FT DNA only charges $10 for international orders.

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                          • cc
                            Originally posted by Tali View Post
                            23andMe charges $92.95 just for shipping!!! FT DNA only charges $10 for international orders.
                            To Germany 23andMe wanted to charge me almost 80 Dollar for shipping and this was the reason I chose FTDNA. Nevertheless after this much delay at FTDNA I would have luckily payed the 80 Dollar shipping at 23andMe.

                            But maybe 23andMe knows his limits of his capacity and wants to avoid to fall into the same trap as FTDNA by accepting too much samples from all over the world and building up such a huge backlog as FTDNA obviously did, so the shipping cost seems to be used as a deterrence by 23andMe. I cannot imagine any other reason for this excessive shipping cost, can you?
                            Last edited by E19463; 22 February 2015, 02:58 AM.

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                            • Customers-English not 1st Language= mis-communication.

                              Originally posted by E19463 View Post
                              I am sorry if I misinterpreted your post as a criticism of the actions chrfish has taken.
                              E19463 It seems there was a misunderstanding, I am also sorry that I was cross (upset with your comments); we have a misunderstanding here and I did not realise you were not a native speaker (I am not American by the way and so also sometimes misunderstand certain things). FTDNA attracts customers from all over the world and this type of mis-understanding can often occur .

                              English is not your 1st language E19463 and my post was probably complicated. Actually, your English is very good . I must also learn to write more clearly in such cases. It did not occur to me at first that you were European because of the quality of your English was so high. Understanding though is more difficult sometimes.

                              I will go through your posts thoroughly and try to work out what the problem is.

                              Also for chrfish I might have some information that is helpful to him as well.

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                              • Originally posted by E19463 View Post
                                cc

                                But maybe 23andMe knows his limits of his capacity and wants to avoid to fall into the same trap as FTDNA by accepting too much samples from all over the world and building up such a huge backlog as FTDNA obviously did, so the shipping cost seems to be used as a deterrence by 23andMe. I cannot imagine any other reason for this excessive shipping cost, can you?
                                That's a possibility.

                                If the shipping wasn't so out of control, I would be tempted to try 23andMe also. I'm thinking about calling and asking if they would consider adjusting the shipping fee. The rate is so exorbitant that it seems like a mistake.

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