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I am considering buying Big Y-700 ... BUT ...

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  • I am considering buying Big Y-700 ... BUT ...

    In the information it says: "Raw data files are not included. The option to purchase your file will be available for an additional fee after your test is complete" This is a change form how it was before when you could access your raw data files for free. The raw data files are essential for me so I wonder if anybody knows how much the access will cost?

  • #2
    According to Roberta Estes' blog post about the new BigY pricing, the BAM file will be available through the "Upgrades" tab for $100. IF you have already done an earlier BigY test (BigY, BigY 500), there are upgrade prices to Big Y-700, which are shown later in the blog post. Also, according to the same blog post:

    If you order an upgrade from any earlier Big Y to the Big Y-700, you receive an upgraded BAM file because you already paid for the BAM file when you ordered your initial Big Y test.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by aketilander View Post
      In the information it says: "Raw data files are not included. The option to purchase your file will be available for an additional fee after your test is complete" This is a change form how it was before when you could access your raw data files for free. The raw data files are essential for me so I wonder if anybody knows how much the access will cost?
      First, the BAM file was not free. EVERYONE was paying $100 to have access to the BAM file, even if they didn't want it. Second, FTDNA reduced the base price for Big Y-700 by $100 and removed free access to the BAM file.

      Now those who want the BAM file pay $100 to get it and those who don't want it don't have to pay for it!

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      • #4
        Yeah, it's still a little bit of a jab at third party analysis companies because now unless you know what you want ahead of time, new users who run into those sites might be deterred from spending what they see as an "extra" $100 for their BAM file. My main complaint is that it will help set precedent for all companies to raise their prices under that pretext.

        But it's not a worse deal, you're just paying $499 for Big Y+BAM, not too far off the old mark. Cheaper in fact.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jim Barrett View Post
          First, the BAM file was not free. EVERYONE was paying $100 to have access to the BAM file, even if they didn't want it. Second, FTDNA reduced the base price for Big Y-700 by $100 and removed free access to the BAM file.

          Now those who want the BAM file pay $100 to get it and those who don't want it don't have to pay for it!
          I am not sure if I agree. Big Y 700 was introduced at $649 regular price (without any discounts). And the regular price is still $649 if you look at the current information about the Thanksgiving sale. https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna So I cannot see that there has been any reduction of the regular price with $100. If the regular price was $549 and the present discount $250 the sale price would be $299, would it not? To charge 100$ to get access to your own BAM-files is a bit outrageous is it not?

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          • #6
            If something is outrageous, is it charging people $100 for the BAM file they want or is it charging people $100 for a BAM file they don't want?

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            • #7
              I will agree with the outrageous comment if the post-sale price does not drop by at least $100. Jim Barrett suggests that it will, but I'm jiggered if I can find out what the post-sale price will be.
              I have been beating the drum to get existing members to upgrade and to recruit new members while the sale is on, since this is the best Y product yet offered by FTDNA, after they finally decided to integrate SNP results with STR. My newest recruit, after 12 years of my importuning, went for the sale price Y700 because of the drop.
              FTDNA is slow about editing GAP pages and the Price Comparison still does not reflect any Big Y, from the days when they were essentially firewalled from STR results by FTDNA.
              Last edited by clintonslayton76; 22nd November 2019, 04:20 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by clintonslayton76 View Post
                Jim Barrett suggests that it will, but I'm jiggered if I can find out what the post-sale price will be.
                I only reported what FTDNA said in an email to admins.

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                • #9
                  You are a trusted source as far as I am concerned, so I do not doubt you. I try to keep GAP announcements, so I assume you are referring to 11/1/2019, where they wrote:
                  we will be dropping the nonsale price of Big Y-700 significantly from its current nonsale price of $649.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by aketilander View Post

                    I am not sure if I agree. Big Y 700 was introduced at $649 regular price (without any discounts). And the regular price is still $649 if you look at the current information about the Thanksgiving sale. https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna So I cannot see that there has been any reduction of the regular price with $100. If the regular price was $549 and the present discount $250 the sale price would be $299, would it not? To charge 100$ to get access to your own BAM-files is a bit outrageous is it not?
                    When Big Y was introduced, yes it was $649. However it was an add-on test separate from the STR tests (Y12-Y111). Some years ago it went down to $575. During the Holiday sale of 2017, new Big Y orders included a free upgrade for your STR test to Y111. DNA Day sale of 2018 introduced the Big Y500 in which made Big Y an upgrade from the STR tests rather than an add-on. So a new Big Y500 order included the Y111 after this point. New price was $649. At the start of 2019, the Big Y700 was introduced. All Big Y500 orders from November 2018 and after, plus any older orders pending results, would now be Big Y700. The sale price for Big Y700 during 2018's Holiday and 2019's Summer sales was $499. During this 2019's Holiday sale, the BAM file has been split from the Big Y700 test. The sale price for the Big Y700 decoupled from the raw data is $399 with the raw data being $100. FTDNA has told project admins that the standard price for Big Y700 will drop after the sale. So if you order a Big Y700 right now and the raw data, you pay the same price as those that ordered the Big Y700 before this change. The reason FTDNA mentions the regular price being $649 is likely for marketing to get people to think the price difference is that big because in a way it is for now.

                    I would not worry about others doing something similar. They in fact can now add that their raw data is free, as a bonus.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the history, Contemplator, but it does not clarify two questions.
                      1) What will be postsale price be?
                      and
                      2) One of my members who got Y700 just after Nov 2018 (expecting Y500) can, as an existing sampler, download his BAM for free. Will an existing Y500 sampler like me, who currently gets their BAM file free of charge at will, be able to do so if they "upgrade" to Y700? I infer that they will not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I received two emails pertaining to the BigY, specifically for BAM information, both on Nov. 1:
                        "Big Y BAM File Information" at 11:10 a.m.
                        Dear Valued Customer,

                        Starting today, Big Y participants will see some changes to how they are able to download raw data for the Big Y product. Below are further details.
                        For customers who purchase a Big Y-700 starting 11/01/19, the product will not include downloadable raw data. However, customers will have the option to purchase the “Big Y Raw Data” product after the Big Y test has begun processing in our lab.

                        Customers who purchased a Big Y-700 or Big Y-500 prior to 11/01/19, will continue to have access to their downloadable raw data. These existing customers will see a new product added to their Order History called “Big Y Raw Data.” This product has been added at no charge to ensure continued access to their downloadable raw data.

                        The downloadable raw data is expensive for FTDNA to provide for our customers and only a small portion of Big Y participants request this download. Rather than continue to pass this cost along to all Big Y participants, we have chosen to only charge those who wish to download their BAM file for that data. This change allows us to reduce the price of the test, which in turn will give more customers the ability to participate in Big Y testing and building the Haplotree.

                        As always, thank you for testing with FamilyTreeDNA.

                        Sincerely,
                        FamilyTreeDNA

                        "GAP Announcement: BAM File Clarification" at 9:04 p.m.
                        Dear Group Project Administrators,

                        We want to clarify a bit more the recent changes to the Big Y product and BAM file offering. FamilyTreeDNA customers and Project Administrators have been inquiring for months about dropping the price of the Big Y. As a result, we've made changes to the Big Y product offering to allow for a larger reduction in price.

                        Not every Big Y customer opts to download their BAM file, for this reason, we have removed the cost of the download from the Big Y to allow for a larger discount on the test. These changes have allowed us to drop our current sale price to an all-time low of $399! In 2020, we will be dropping the nonsale price of Big Y-700 significantly from its current nonsale price of $649.

                        For those who still wish to download their BAM file after their results are posted, they will have the option to do so for $100.

                        Any customer who has already purchased a Big Y prior to today, November 1st, will still have access to their BAM file for no additional fee.

                        We hope this further clarifies things for you and apologize for any confusion.

                        Sincerely,
                        FamilyTreeDNA
                        Additionally, Roberta Estes, who seems to have had an inside line about FTDNA in general, said this in her Nov. 12 blog post, "Big Y News and Stats + Sale":
                        • If you order an upgrade from any earlier Big Y to the Big Y-700, you receive an upgraded BAM file because you already paid for the BAM file when you ordered your initial Big Y test.
                        • The VCF file is still available for download at no additional cost with any Big Y test.
                        • There is no change in the BAM file availability for current customers. Everyone who ordered before November 1, 2019 will be able to download their BAM file as always.
                        The above changes are permanent, except for the sale price.
                        To try to answer your questions:
                        1) What will be postsale price be?
                        and
                        2) One of my members who got Y700 just after Nov 2018 (expecting Y500) can, as an existing sampler, download his BAM for free. Will an existing Y500 sampler like me, who currently gets their BAM file free of charge at will, be able to do so if they "upgrade" to Y700? I infer that they will not.
                        1) From what information we've been given, it seems we will all need to wait until FTDNA decides to tell us what the post-sale price will be.
                        2) Per the emails and blog post above, if a customer had purchased a Big Y-500, or purchased or upgraded to Big Y-700 (from any earlier Big Y) prior to Nov. 1, 2019, that customer will still be able to download the BAM file. Therefore, I infer that since you already had a Big Y-500 test prior to Nov. 1, you will still be able to download your BAM file (and actually get an upgraded BAM file), if you upgrade to Big Y-700.

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                        • #13
                          Thank you KATM, but I cannot base spending for upgrading my Y500 to Y700 (obviously after Nov 1 2019) to be hit up for another $100 to get an upgraded BAM file on an inference, because I do not come to the same conclusion. Obviously I will have to contact FTDNA CS, which has done a much better job of answering queries now than in the past.
                          As everyone here knows, there are other services that do aging estimates from these files, and since I and a cousin are recipients of a newly-registered downstream SNP, I like to cover all bases. One Haplo admin states that I will gain nothing from such an upgrade, even though, as you state, it should yield an upgraded BAM.
                          Last edited by clintonslayton76; 24th November 2019, 06:39 PM.

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                          • #14
                            If customer service gives you an answer, please post here and let us know (if you will have to pay another $100 for a BAM if you upgrade).

                            Personally, I am holding off on upgrading from Big Y-500 to Big Y-700 for monetary reasons: burn-out from buying a lot of DNA testing the last few years, leading to "is this trip really necessary" thinking. If, in a year or two, or three, a Big Y-900 or 1000 comes out, I'll see if my thinking has changed.

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                            • #15
                              Well, I decided to order the Big Y 700 and to pay the $100 extra to access my BAM-file, but I doubt I will do it again fo any of my kits. I did it for now since I don't really have time to compare prices with other testing companies, and since I don't have easy access to that DNA (the tester lives in a different continent), but next time I want to do a Y-test I will compare prices and calculate the whole cost and see which company is the cheapest. It's not really fair that we have to pay that fee for old kits, since the DNA is somehow trapped with FTDNA and we were not informed that there would be a fee like that when we first collected our samples. Furthermore to costs of storing a 0.5 GB BAM-file (for ever) is far from 100$.

                              The key issue here is though that FTDNA wants some kind of monopoly and that's why they don't want other companies to access these BAM-files. Usually these kinds of ideas finally have bad consequences for the companies. Open access and free trade is usually always better then protectionism.

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