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Ysearch and Mitosearch going out of business

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  • #16
    Deplorable loss for Y-STR research

    I've been volunteering to help a research project here in the Czech Republic that for years has been providing people with at least basically researched male lines with the possibility of getting a small set of their Y-STR markers determined free of charge. For many Czechs (more than two thousand at this moment), this has been their first encounter with genetic genealogy.

    The project was wise enough to set up its own public Czech Y-STR database at http://www.genebaze.cz/cgi-bin/cyd.cgi?lang=us&n=cz but Ysearch has always been an important part of the process, because it enabled comparisons with an international collection of samples and it was also a way of making our results available to the public. A few participants have even actually managed to discover new relationships by means of a match on Ysearch, and for many more this overall experience has been a gate into more advanced testing (more markers, Y-SNP, atDNA...) with the commercial companies (and we have always recommended FTDNA because of its long history and good reputation).

    I regret Ysearch being shut down, not because of the software (which has indeed been broken for many years), but because of all the data and effort that hundreds of thousands of people have invested into it. Should this data really disappear for good this Thursday, it would mean another little Library of Alexandria burnt down. The recent post about Geni possibly stepping into the process gives some hope, and I still hope that at least someone is going to make a backup of all of that, keep it at home and republish some fifty years into the future, when all or most of those tested are dead and protection does not apply anymore.

    It's not true that Ysearch is not needed today because FTDNA is the only company that is doing Y-STR, so everyone can use their internal database. To the contrary, as indicated on its main page, almost 12 % of Ysearch's 220.000 records come from other labs. These are NOT going to be found in FTDNA's internal database - and possibly anywhere else - after Ysearch is closed.

    A big part of that endangered data are probably precious haplotypes which have already once been saved when Ancestry.com deleted their own Y-STR data and data from other databases they had acquired, including the Sorenson project, to the anger of many. If those profiles are not taken care for today (curators have died or are otherwise inactive), chances are it will not survive this Thursday.

    We genealogists give immense value to any sources of information on our ancestors that have had the luck of surviving to these days to inform us about our own past. By neglecting to protect and save a part of our current research, we are willingly destroying would-be treasures for future generations of genealogists.

    As for our research project, we regret loosing the possibility of uploading our results into the last public international Y-STR database out there. There must be other private/non-commercial labs and researchers who produce Y-STR results and link them to genealogy (it does not all have to be just about forensics and anonymity) and these people and their clients now find themselves abandoned, because - to a great loss for science - they are not a part of FTDNA. Independent researchers are truly losing their last place for sharing Y-STR data when Ysearch is closing.

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    • #17
      @blahma

      Originally posted by blahma View Post
      [----] The project was wise enough to set up its own public Czech Y-STR database at http://www.genebaze.cz/cgi-bin/cyd.cgi?lang=us&n=cz but Ysearch has always been an important part of the process, because it enabled comparisons with an international collection of samples and it was also a way of making our results available to the public. [----]
      Hello blahma, how are you changing for GDPR? Are you ready yet? Czechia is in the European Union...


      Mr. W.

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      • #18
        Wish they would at least offer a consolation prize that until they shut it down: reinstate the ability to send messages to the owner of the sequences one is interested in. (that has not been functional for a few years) There remains a couple of very important sequences there and would like to see if the owners are interested in further testing.

        Sad day for me as well. I've used mitosearch for several research projects.

        There really is no substitute even if 100 percent of the entries were from ftdna. I've found ftdna's replacement for mtdna data very hard to use, and don't even know if that's still accessible.

        Is there somewhere I can find out more about geni? Guess I should google it.

        And I also miss the Sorenson data. I didn't realize was gone for ever. That was some of the earliest data I used to make progress. have some of the trees somewhere. there's another database I used to use that was changed to the point where one can no longer search and they don't do analyses like the used to- hmdb or some such. so sad.

        ok, will try now to pull some data off mitosearch before I forget.

        update: Uh Oh. the 91 sequences I want say that the URL cannot be found when I try to pull up all the sequences (the "compare" option). I will try one at a time, but even if that works, I can't download them one at a time. Anyone else having this problem?
        penguin
        FTDNA Customer
        Last edited by penguin; 19 May 2018, 07:16 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dna View Post
          Hello blahma, how are you changing for GDPR? Are you ready yet? Czechia is in the European Union...
          Mr. W.
          Since the beginning, the project has been asking for a formal consent from each participant in a form approved by the Czech data protection institute. It may therefore well be the case that nothing changes for the database and we might just want to update the name of the law that this is ruled by. Also, the lab is run by a public research institution, and AFAIK there are somewhat different rules for public institutions and for research. But IANAL and there are lawyers who oversee the project's workflow and say that we are not in trouble.

          That's therefore a different case than Ysearch, which has never asked for any explicit consent during data upload and only had a short and general Disclaimer page: http://www.ysearch.org/disclaimer.asp I guess that's a part of the problem (they would need to attempt at contacting all the users and getting a formal consent from each, which would mean a substantial amount of effort and would not save any unattended data anyway). Compare this to GEDmatch, which has just today started asking its users to approve a new and lengthy privacy policy and it keeps running...

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          • #20
            EU GDPR

            Draconian nazi crap.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
              Draconian nazi crap.
              Au contraire!

              German Nazi laws and practices were inherently incompatible with any privacy.


              Mr. W.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by dna View Post
                Au contraire!

                German Nazi laws and practices were inherently incompatible with any privacy.


                Mr. W.
                If you are a european, can you opt out of these so-called privacy laws? If yes, is it easy and if so, how is it done?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
                  If you are a European, can you opt out of these so-called privacy laws? If yes, is it easy and if so, how is it done?
                  As a European you do not have to opt out, since the law is not (in general) applicable to individuals.

                  It is applicable to Facebook, etc. They are brought to order, not the individuals.


                  Mr. W.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by dna View Post
                    As a European you do not have to opt out, since the law is not (in general) applicable to individuals.

                    It is applicable to Facebook, etc. They are brought to order, not the individuals.


                    Mr. W.
                    What I'm asking is if a european can allow their data, such as DNA, to be posted on a site, such as mitosearch by signing a release.

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                    • #25
                      What about all the DNA posted at the National Institute of Health? There are thousands of full DNA scans on file that belong to europeans and other people from around the world. Are you telling me that the EU is now going to interfere with science albeit most of the samples have no personal identifiers attached to them.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
                        What I'm asking is if a european can allow their data, such as DNA, to be posted on a site, such as mitosearch by signing a release.
                        Originally posted by girlperson1 View Post
                        What about all the DNA posted at the National Institute of Health? There are thousands of full DNA scans on file that belong to europeans and other people from around the world. Are you telling me that the EU is now going to interfere with science albeit most of the samples have no personal identifiers attached to them.
                        GDPR specifically makes exemptions for scientific research.

                        As you read a couple of posts earlier, to the owners of a scientific genetic database in Czechia, it is a business as usual.


                        Mr. W.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ysearch shutting down

                          This is very sad. At least with Yseach I was able to find potential matches to my y-chromosome.

                          The results posted at FTDNA are seven (7) and that is with three years of time running on the results. At Ysearch I have several more and they match my surname.

                          The matching and searching tools at FTNDA aren't worth anywhere near the money (a Y-67 marker test is expensive) I paid for it and I will never recommend FTDNA to anyone. If fact, I tell people to stay away from FTDNA if they want a DNA test.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by c2cthomas View Post
                            The matching and searching tools at FTNDA aren't worth anywhere near the money (a Y-67 marker test is expensive) I paid for it and I will never recommend FTDNA to anyone. If fact, I tell people to stay away from FTDNA if they want a DNA test.
                            Where do you tell others to go for Y-DNA test?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dna View Post
                              If you paid, then you paid somewhere else.


                              Mr. W.
                              I paid for my FTDNA mtDNA results and was invited to pass them on to Mitosearch. If those results are now unobtainable on FTDNA or Mitosearch, then I have paid for something that I do not have. You call yourself a customer. Me too.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Scribe View Post
                                I paid for my FTDNA mtDNA results and was invited to pass them on to Mitosearch. If those results are now unobtainable on FTDNA or Mitosearch, then I have paid for something that I do not have. You call yourself a customer. Me too.
                                Did you read Jim Barrett's answer to you in his 13th May 2018 09:04 AM post above? When you used Mitosearch, your mtDNA results did not disappear from your FTDNA account. They are still there, and will continue to be there. You are not being cheated out of what you paid for.

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