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Scandinavian to British Isles or west/central Europe - New Algorithm

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  • RVBlake
    replied
    My results are the reverse of yours: My Origins 1.0 listed app. 20% British Isles, app. 30% West & Central Europe, and 17% Scandinavian, 4% Finnish, with no trace origins that I recall. Now they're shown as 0% British Isles, 62% West & Central Europe, 36% Scandinavian, with <2% W. Middle East & <2% Central/Southern Africa. I'm fine with the W/Central Europe, I am heavily French and German ancestry, but also heavily English and am bemused at the disappearance with My Origins 2.0. Also puzzled at the 36% Scandinavian, although having a Danish ggrandmother, which would provide 12.5% at most. All I can figure is the boost in Scandinavian and disappearance of British Isles is due to Scandinavian settlement in Britain at some historical point. Also, nearly 25% of my Big Y matches are Swedish/Norwegian/Finnish, supporting the boost in Scandinavian numbers.

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  • gatty
    replied
    My Scandinavian went from 37% to 6%. British isles went from 61 to 74%(+13), West and central Europe 0 to 14%(+14). That accounts for 27/31 of it.

    However I struggle to see that the other 4% is accounted for by my trace populations .I would certainly rule out North Africa and West Middle East.

    Trace Results
    Finland < 2%
    North Africa < 2%
    North and Central America < 2%
    West Middle East < 2%

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  • hollifer
    replied
    Originally posted by khazaria View Post
    You did not find a relevant allele value in every possibility FTDNA tests for on
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
    PLUS every additional possibility that 23andMe tests for?
    There has to be a red hair allele in your DNA somewhere.
    I checked the 6 refSNPs on the top of that page and got none of the alleles that go with the SNP. But, what does T (G>T) in the allele column, for example? For the last SNP, I have GG. I didn't do the bottom ones as my raw data is just fTDNA.
    Last edited by hollifer; 19 April 2017, 03:00 PM.

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  • khazaria
    replied
    Originally posted by hollifer View Post
    Hmm. I checked on all RefSNPs on the project site and they're either CC or GG.
    You did not find a relevant allele value in every possibility FTDNA tests for on
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
    PLUS every additional possibility that 23andMe tests for?
    There has to be a red hair allele in your DNA somewhere.

    I assure you I have red hair, auburn to be exact. I came out the womb with orange hair.
    Yes, my hair was also orange as a preschooler, which looked rather blond in sunlight, and turned auburn then chestnut later in childhood (lots of brown influence). I'm not really freckled. My beard also has red in it but head hair and beard hair aren't always controlled by the same genes.
    Last edited by khazaria; 19 April 2017, 02:36 PM.

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  • hollifer
    replied
    Originally posted by khazaria View Post
    The project is located at
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...variants/about

    Below are some of the main values:

    Arg160Trp = R160W = rs1805008
    If you have one or two "T" letters for this value, you are eligible. That can be looked up inside your raw data file from Family Finder. When I opened my data field for this value, I saw I have "TT", which makes sense since I had reddish hair as a child. Kasia Bryc of 23andMe is a red-headed ethnic Pole who has this allele too.

    R151C = rs1805007
    If you score "T" in this, you are also eligible, but this SNP is not reported by Family Finder. You'd have to test for this on another site. Some ethnic Poles have at least one "T" there.

    D294H = i3002507
    If you score "C" in this, you are eligible, but this SNP isn't reported by Family Finder either.

    Several others are listed in this screen:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    Hmm. I checked on all RefSNPs on the project site and they're either CC or GG. I assure you I have red hair, auburn to be exact. I came out the womb with orange hair. What could this mean? My dad was dark brown hair, but his facial hair grew-in auburn, same exact color as me. He's half Swedish/half Polish. My mom had brownish-red hair and the freckles. She was half Polish/Ukrainian.

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  • khazaria
    replied
    P.S. My dad's most accurate estimate in EUtest on line 13:
    95.8% AJ
    + 4.2% PL
    at genetic distance 3.78

    is effectively identical to his estimate in MyOrigins 2.0:
    95% Ashkenazi + <2% West Middle East
    + 4% East Europe

    Did you know the EUtest calculator was created by a Pole?
    Last edited by khazaria; 19 April 2017, 02:12 PM.

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  • khazaria
    replied
    Originally posted by khazaria
    Which red hair SNP(s) are you positive for within your autosomal DNA?
    Did you join Richard M. Stevens' Red Hair Variants Project at Family Tree DNA?
    Originally posted by hollifer View Post
    I have no idea. How do I check that? I'll look into that project.
    The project is located at
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...variants/about

    Below are some of the main values:

    Arg160Trp = R160W = rs1805008
    If you have one or two "T" letters for this value, you are eligible. That can be looked up inside your raw data file from Family Finder. When I opened my data field for this value, I saw I have "TT", which makes sense since I had reddish hair as a child. Kasia Bryc of 23andMe is a red-headed ethnic Pole who has this allele too.

    R151C = rs1805007
    If you score "T" in this, you are also eligible, but this SNP is not reported by Family Finder. You'd have to test for this on another site. Some ethnic Poles have at least one "T" there.

    D294H = i3002507
    If you score "C" in this, you are eligible, but this SNP isn't reported by Family Finder either.

    Several others are listed in this screen:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    Last edited by khazaria; 19 April 2017, 02:02 PM.

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  • hollifer
    replied
    Originally posted by khazaria View Post
    Yes, in EUtest I've confirmed that PL = Polish, UA = Ukrainian, LIT = Lithuanian, EE = Estonian, HU = Hungarian, RO = Romanian, AT = Austrian, IE = Irish
    Great, thanks for clarifying.

    Which red hair SNP(s) are you positive for within your autosomal DNA?
    Did you join Richard M. Stevens' Red Hair Variants Project at Family Tree DNA?
    I have no idea. How do I check that? I'll look into that project.

    Leave a comment:


  • khazaria
    replied
    Originally posted by hollifer View Post
    Well, the EUtest seems most accurate, as I'm mostly Polish (I assume PL is Polish), also Ukrainian (UA?), and Swedish.
    Yes, in EUtest I've confirmed that PL = Polish, UA = Ukrainian, LIT = Lithuanian, EE = Estonian, HU = Hungarian, RO = Romanian, AT = Austrian, IE = Irish

    Originally posted by hollifer View Post
    I'm a redhead with many freckles. The freckles came from my mom's Polish/Ukrainian side.
    Which red hair SNP(s) are you positive for within your autosomal DNA?
    Did you join Richard M. Stevens' Red Hair Variants Project at Family Tree DNA?

    Leave a comment:


  • hollifer
    replied
    Well, the EUtest seems most accurate, as I'm mostly Polish (I assume PL is Polish), also Ukrainian (UA?), and Swedish.

    I'm a redhead with many freckles. The freckles came from my mom's Polish/Ukrainian side. So, I'm figuring an ancestor from the BI migrated east over 300 years ago.

    These tests are certainly fun to do, albeit there are many that creates confusion.

    Leave a comment:


  • dcx4610
    replied
    Population Percentage is basically the breakdown of DNA you have from each region.

    The Single Population sharing is looking at your DNA as a whole and finding what population you match the closest to. The shorter the distance, the more native you are to that region.

    No calculator is going to be perfect. For me, Dodecad lists my population as Argyll. My research leads me to Scotland so that makes sense. EUTest says I'm Dutch however and I can only find one Dutch grandmother.

    It's best to use as many calculators as possible and try to match them to your research. There's going to be some confirmation bias involved I'm sure but if the research matches the results you are getting, it's at least some solid evidence.
    Last edited by dcx4610; 18 April 2017, 02:50 PM.

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  • hollifer
    replied
    I did the EUtest too. I think this one may be the most accurate. I think PL may be Polish. UA may be Ukraine. My understanding of how this works is 1 population measures the most ancestry I have. Since I'm mostly Polish, that matches. 4 populations measures each grandparent. But, there's no Polish there.

    EUtest 4-Ancestors Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 SOUTH_BALTIC 24.65
    2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 24.34
    3 EAST_EURO 16.94
    4 ATLANTIC 16.65
    5 WEST_MED 9.09
    6 WEST_ASIAN 5.62
    7 EAST_MED 2.51


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 PL @ 9.580440
    2 UA @ 11.235986
    3 North_Swedish @ 11.339379
    4 HU @ 11.800588
    5 South_Finnish @ 12.435382
    6 AT @ 12.435728
    7 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 12.450314
    8 West_Russian @ 12.496415
    9 Ukrainian-Russian @ 13.415746
    10 EE @ 13.671785
    11 Belorussian @ 13.881100
    12 NO @ 13.939371
    13 West_&_Central_German @ 14.746617
    14 NL @ 15.637305
    15 DK @ 16.126081
    16 East_Finnish @ 16.151129
    17 Northwest_Russian @ 17.174822
    18 East_Russian @ 17.535425
    19 LIT @ 18.064743
    20 English @ 18.207520

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +50% UA @ 3.584806


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% UA +25% UA @ 3.584806


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + UA @ 3.584806
    2 NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + UA @ 3.749105
    3 South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + UA + West_&_Central_German @ 3.788461
    4 NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + UA @ 3.816091
    5 LIT + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + West_&_Central_German @ 3.867841
    6 LIT + NO + UA + West_&_Central_German @ 3.889720
    7 LIT + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA @ 3.916969
    8 LIT + NL + UA + West_&_Central_German @ 3.955134
    9 NO + NO + UA + UA @ 3.961876
    10 LIT + NL + NL + UA @ 3.968485
    11 LIT + NL + NO + UA @ 3.973300
    12 Belorussian + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + West_&_Central_German @ 3.976090
    13 HU + LIT + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.979797
    14 PL + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA @ 4.008276
    15 LIT + UA + West_&_Central_German + West_&_Central_German @ 4.014571
    16 NO + UA + UA + West_&_Central_German @ 4.019593
    17 Belorussian + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA @ 4.030103
    18 South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA + Ukrainian-Russian @ 4.040820
    19 English + LIT + South_&_Central_Swedish + UA @ 4.067041
    20 NL + NO + UA + UA @ 4.078354

    Leave a comment:


  • hollifer
    replied
    Originally posted by dcx4610 View Post
    I like Dodecad V3 and Eurogenes K13. Dodecad feels more accurate to me but Eurogenes is useful to compare results. What you are looking for is Norwegian or Swedish results in the "Single Population Sharing" section. The closer the distance, the more DNA you have from that population.
    Okay, so I just did these.

    Dodecad V3:
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West_European 44.16
    2 East_European 25.04
    3 Mediterranean 21.32
    4 West_Asian 8.86
    5 Northeast_Asian 0.45
    6 East_African 0.18

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Slovenian (Xing) 5.39
    2 Hungarians (Behar) 7.62
    3 German (Dodecad) 10.93
    4 CEU (HapMap) 15.9
    5 N._European (Xing) 16
    6 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 16.08
    7 Orcadian (HGDP) 16.99
    8 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 17.19
    9 FIN (1000Genomes) 18.9
    10 Balkans (Dodecad) 20.07
    11 Polish (Dodecad) 20.54
    12 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 21.04
    13 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 22.71
    14 French (Dodecad) 23.22
    15 Romanians_14 (Behar) 23.46
    16 French (HGDP) 23.55
    17 Finnish (Dodecad) 23.67
    18 Swedish (Dodecad) 23.92
    19 Dutch (Dodecad) 24.36
    20 Russian (Dodecad) 26.27

    If I had no Swedish ancestry, can I assume that this wouldn't appear at all? These calculators' results are just based on the populations studied, is that correct? There are so many, that's it quite confusing.

    Western European being higher than Eastern European is confusing, as I'm mostly Polish. But, I guess this is showing earlier DNA, from migration from the west perhaps.

    Eurogenes K13:
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baltic 41.78
    2 North_Atlantic 30.95
    3 West_Med 13.45
    4 West_Asian 6.65
    5 East_Med 4.86
    6 Amerindian 1
    7 Northeast_African 0.76
    8 Siberian 0.36
    9 Oceanian 0.17
    10 Sub-Saharan 0.03

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 South_Polish 3.04
    2 Ukrainian 3.99
    3 Ukrainian_Lviv 4.27
    4 Polish 4.78
    5 Croatian 7.5
    6 Russian_Smolensk 8.11
    7 Southwest_Russian 8.41
    8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.73
    9 Estonian_Polish 8.76
    10 Belorussian 9.28
    11 Hungarian 10.26
    12 East_German 10.46
    13 Moldavian 11.07
    14 Southwest_Finnish 11.33
    15 Estonian 11.79
    16 Kargopol_Russian 12.12
    17 Austrian 12.42
    18 Lithuanian 12.93
    19 Finnish 13.07
    20 North_Swedish 14.9

    This one seems more accurate, as Polish is closer. A grandfather was actually Ukrainian, from western Ukraine close to current Polish border, so I loop him into my Polish side.

    I guess I can conclude from these that I do have Swedish DNA, just small percentages. That would make sense, as I just 1/4. Baltic is pretty high, so in the Scandinavian area. North Atlantic is BI, I presume. So, there is obviously Scandinavia and BI crossing over each other.

    If you have any thoughts on my results above, I would love to hear it.

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  • dcx4610
    replied
    Originally posted by hollifer View Post
    What is the best GEDmatch calculator to use to determine Scandinavian ancestry?
    I like Dodecad V3 and Eurogenes K13. Dodecad feels more accurate to me but Eurogenes is useful to compare results. What you are looking for is Norwegian or Swedish results in the "Single Population Sharing" section. The closer the distance, the more DNA you have from that population.

    Leave a comment:


  • Odis
    replied
    now we have to assume our past Population Finder-myOrigins-1 were all false..I went from 64% western/Euro to 0% lost all Scandinavian and shifted to basic all British 92% from 24%...do we now start to believe or wait 5 years for a results change.......

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