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  • #91
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    That would remove one of the most attractive features of GEDmatch - the ability to directly contact matches, as we can at FTDNA. At AncestryDNA and 23andMe, they use an internal messaging system to contact matches, not direct e-mail addresses. We all know how that creates low response rates from matches.

    Also, I don't know if the change you're suggesting would be burdensome time-wise and money-wise for a volunteer website.
    But once we've made contact, we can provide private e-mail addresses within our messages. And since Gedmatch represents people who are the most active and interested in making contact with others, I don't think it would have the same effect as at the other companies. As for costs/amount of work, I know nothing.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by hansonrf View Post
      23andMe 'kits' are not randomized by GedMatch; they are also extracted from the downloaded filename [which includes the user's name, too].
      My 23andme Gedmatch kit number doesn't have any information that matches my 23andme file.

      I just uploaded my 23andme kit a 2nd time to Gedmatch but I changed the file name and put a different name in the upload and it gave me a brand new kit number.

      Therefore, 23andMe 'kits' are randomized by GedMatch.

      Before information is disseminated please ensure that statements have validity. Otherwise it is misinformation.
      Last edited by Armando; 17 March 2016, 03:09 PM.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by ech124 View Post
        To change the existing users could be a massive job and it is probably why Gedmatch is resisting and there is an impasse.
        I haven't heard from a database programmer that can verify that changing the IDs is a massive job. I think that FTDNA wants other changes on top of the ID change.

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        • #94
          23andMe Kit Numbers

          Regarding 23andMe kit numbers: Based on my GEDmatch uploads over the years, it looks like GEDmatch used to use the time-stamp part of the 23andMe download filename as the kit number (time when download file was generated in HHMMSS format), but that hasn't been the case with recent uploads. I'm guessing that they changed to random numbers at some point. So even the old 23andMe kit numbers weren't based on anything to do with the person's identity.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by gilbertdh View Post
            Gedmatch, the last time I tried to find it, has no privacy policy at all.
            The GedMatch Web site has a link on the main page for Site Policy. Pretty clear from that what their policies are. They clearly state that if you don't like their policies you can remove your data yourself pretty easily.



            Is it possible that Gedmatch is doing something with our DNA data that FT DNA objects to?
            The key statement their is "our DNA data." I paid FTDNA to process my data and it should be mine to do with what I choose.

            I’m not a lawyer, but since FT DNA does generate the data from our DNA, they may have some right to tell another company not to do some things with it if it violates their patents or procedures.

            David
            I'm certain that FTDNA is making (more) money by reselling DNA data they they collect, regardless of what they may say to the contrary. They use a standardized process to sequence whatever data they produce, otherwise they wouldn't accept data from Ancestry or 23andMe (which also use the same standardized processes. So it stands to reason that they don't have "patents or procedures" unique to FTDNA. This whole thing smacks of corporate greed and jealousy.
            Last edited by mkel2000; 17 March 2016, 03:52 PM.

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            • #96
              New post to FTDNA's Facebook Page

              From FTDNA FaceBook page:

              Family Tree DNA
              17 mins ยท

              We are reaching out to our customers to make some important clarifications to what is being published regarding GEDMatch stopping the upload of Family Tree DNA results.

              1. Let it be clear: the DNA test results, including any raw data available to the customers through their personal page, belongs to the owner of the DNA record, and not to Family Tree DNA.

              2. The owner of the DNA record, consequently, can voluntarily submit his/her results to any other outfit, so long as by doing so, the customer does not compromise the privacy of any of his/her matches, or any records in the Family Tree DNA database.

              3. More than one customer that has uploaded their FamilyTreeDNA data to GEDMatch has contacted us about a way for people to breach the privacy of a person's Family Tree DNA record, when uploading their information to GEDMatch.

              4. At the time of the publication of this note, GEDMatch does not have Privacy Terms, nor General Terms & Conditions published on their home page, or on their registration page prior to registering, and thus, customers are not aware of the potential privacy risks associated with uploading their data to GEDMatch

              5. FamilyTreeDNA has tried to reach out to GEDMatch to discuss this subject to find ways to eliminate the risk of potential data breach. We were surprised by their unilateral note on GEDmatch about the discontinuation of the uploads in lieu of a fix, and the new note about supposed threats of lawsuits from us.

              6. It is regretful that GEDMatch, who has been a long time business associate and whose owners tested with FamilyTreeDNA, misrepresented our concerns and precipitated a chain of events that could have easily being solved through dialogue.

              7. Nevertheless, and always thinking about what is best for customers, we are open to discuss with GEDMatch ways to avoid the risks to privacy that they recognize to exist in their system and we encourage those that would like the upload to be reestablished and privacy issues being taken care of to reach out to GEDMach.

              As always, we thank you for your continued support.


              For what its worth.....

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              • #97
                Originally posted by telly441 View Post
                From FTDNA FaceBook page:
                . . .

                5. FamilyTreeDNA has tried to reach out to GEDMatch to discuss this subject to find ways to eliminate the risk of potential data breach. We were surprised by their unilateral note on GEDmatch about the discontinuation of the uploads in lieu of a fix, and the new note about supposed threats of lawsuits from us.

                ...
                Most that statement was so oblique and ambiguous as to be almost meaningless. No doubt FTDNA will claim that it is to avoid disclosing the means by which a security breach might be affected. BUT:

                Will FTDNA unambiguously state that they did NOT discuss legal actions with Gedmatch?

                Given the context of events, and the history of poor communications experienced by FTDNA customers, I highly doubt article 5 of the FTDNA statement. If it were true they would state for a bald fact that they did not discuss any legal action. Full stop.

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                • #98
                  Why was this done? All functionality of definition of relationship in FTDNA has been focused on newbies in genetic genealogy, so GM was the only real tool of a meticulous analysis of the results!

                  Now, however, the meaning of any deep research disappears, but only for FTDNA clients. What I mean - FTDNA is not the only company, that offer this (FF) product by that cost (99$).

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                  • #99
                    Why was this done? All functionality of definition of relationship in FTDNA has been focused on newbies in genetic genealogy, so GM was the only real tool of a meticulous analysis of the results!

                    Now, however, the meaning of any deep research disappears, but only for FTDNA clients. What I mean - FTDNA is not the only company, that offer this (FF) product by that cost (99$).

                    Comment


                    • I am glad that FTDNA has made a statement. They don't mention a threat of a lawsuit, so now it seems a case of "he said, she said".

                      I can say, I have a problem with point 4. I log to my gedmatch account and on the left is a policy statement that has a privacy section. Here is the link, but it might not work unless you have an account:

                      https://www.gedmatch.com/policy.php

                      The privacy section is not elaborate, but it boils down to a critical point. If you have concerns about privacy, don't use the site. It is a fair warning.

                      That seems very clear to me.

                      Comment


                      • FTDNA does not have my continued support. Again, be transparent. What specifically are the concerns? A generic "clients have complained after upload to Gedmatch their privacy and DNA record has been breached..." In what way? I can only think that because at Gedmatch, you can not only see your matches but run the kits of others to see their matches -- some clients don't like that. The solution.... take your marbles and go home. Remove your kit if research in that manner isn't for you. I can only search matches to your kit because I've made MY kit available for you to search. That's one of the unique aspects that make Gedmatch such a fantastic tool. Again, personal choice. Why FTDNA wouldn't respond that they aren't affiliated companies with Gedmatch and if you don't like how the site works, remove your kit. FTDNA didn't force any of its customers to upload to Gedmatch. By using Gedmatch, you cannot access someones raw DNA in any form nor can you gain access to their account at FTDNA.
                        Last edited by phx2128; 17 March 2016, 04:43 PM.

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                        • Whoever is whining about this, as I am sure it is a customer, then why don't they just remove themselves from GEdmatch and leave the rest of us to enjoy it.
                          The simplest solution is for GEDmatch to change the number different than the kit number. Problem solved.
                          I have bought a lot of DNA tests from FTDNA. That is on hold for now. Both sides need to grow up and work this out.

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                          • Originally posted by telly441 View Post
                            3. More than one customer that has uploaded their FamilyTreeDNA data to GEDMatch has contacted us about a way for people to breach the privacy of a person's Family Tree DNA record, when uploading their information to GEDMatch.
                            I've no idea how one could breach privacy on the FTDNA website, but obviously if you select any of your matches on GEDmatch and do a one-to-many search you will see a list of their matches, many of whom have F-prefixed FTDNA kit numbers. Much of this list would be similar to the list of their matches on the FTDNA website. Is this what they mean by a breach? - or do you need to be a hacker to spot it?!

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                            • Originally posted by ech124 View Post
                              . . . I can say, I have a problem with point 4. I log to my gedmatch account and on the left is a policy statement that has a privacy section. Here is the link, but it might not work unless you have an account:

                              https://www.gedmatch.com/policy.php

                              . . .
                              Excellent point. This feels self-serving and less than honest on the part of FTDNA. Obviously you don't want to lay out a data breach strategy for bad actors, but this type of wild inaccuracy only creates doubts about FTDNA's competence or good will.

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                              • Why has FTDNA waited until now to voice their concerns? Does FTDNA have a hidden agenda? Do they think they can force GEDmatch into a corner and make problems for them, and then buy out their company on the cheap? A hostile takeover? I hope not.
                                Last edited by Biblioteque; 17 March 2016, 04:54 PM.

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