Batch 413

[Daveb]

"Perhaps you should read again your last sentence to your friends and ask them if that sounds reasonable. "

The last sentence has nothing to do with super computers or Ferrari's, it has to do with communication. If you find that unreasonable I rest my case.

It is not my intention to fall out with anyone over this, maybe my expectations were too high but in the absence of any contrary information about Batches they were my interpretations.

Now may I suggest we all calm down and hurry up and wait.

Dave (honourably turning the other cheek).

My expectations have now been met, they have pushed the due date back to 7/25/2011, I expected that!.

[Daveb]

"Perhaps you should read again your last sentence to your friends and ask them if that sounds reasonable. "

The last sentence has nothing to do with super computers or Ferrari's, it has to do with communication. If you find that unreasonable I rest my case.

It is not my intention to fall out with anyone over this, maybe my expectations were too high but in the absence of any contrary information about Batches they were my interpretations.

Now may I suggest we all calm down and hurry up and wait.

Dave (honourably turning the other cheek).

[efgen]

The batch IS all tested together.

No, it's not. Read my post above.

This is not like making a batch of cookies all from the same dough.

But this is very true!

Elise

Unreasonable rising expectations.

The batch IS all tested together. The problem is the quality of the samples is not all the same. This is not like making a batch of cookies all from the same dough.

If you do not want to know the batch number, do not look for it on your order. I did, so I know. *I* prefer it that way. We all DO have kit numbers. If you looked at the kit sent to you, you would see that number on the vial.

Ancestry did my second cousin's test and claimed he was J2 while I am J1. We have a match on haplotype, but they put us in different haplogroups. I discovered Ancestry told him that without actually testing his SNP. Perhaps that is an anecdotal case. So is you and your cousin's experience.

Perhaps in anecdotal cases, a sample sent to one company will post results sooner than that with another company. No one, however, has done a study to see which company AVERAGES better than the other. I suspect such a study would show FTDNA would make a good showing in such a case.

If you are expecting more than what you paid for, then I would say that is an unreasonable expectation. I bought a PC but it acts like a PC instead of a Cray super computer. Should I reasonably expect it to have a million processors in it instead of two? If I have a Ferrari, should I expect it to act like a Hummer and take it off road and up a mountain trail? Perhaps there is a different standard for what is reasonable "on the other side of the pond."

Perhaps you should read again your last sentence to your friends and ask them if that sounds reasonable.

Thank you for that sensible comment Elise, I have however selected compare from the whole database not just the project, yes I do understand the reason for no matches is that others with the same DNA have not tested yet, however in answer to others who do not seem to understand my confusion it stems from the fact that I regard a Batch number as meaning that the Batch will be processed at the same time and results will come together. Should this not be the case then perhaps the understanding of the word batch is different on this side of the Atlantic. Maybe FTDNA should forgo the use of batch numbers and give us all individual numbers(test kit maybe) and make no indication to due dates. The whole thing as far as I can see revolves around failed expectations, Ancestry did my cousins test in 11 days and several weeks later I am still waiting for my results to a similar level from FTDNA, I am not interested in all the products on offer but only on the tests I require and while the products offered by FTDNA may be superior to all others that matters little to me as I did not request those tests. All I expected was for results to come in at the same time (Batch) as everybody else's or to be notified if they did not.
I do not see this as a slanging match but only wish to register the fact that I personally feel I have not received the service I expected even though I may have received the service I paid for.
D J Butler
Bristol UK

[efgen]

I regard a Batch number as meaning that the Batch will be processed at the same time and results will come together.

This is actually a common misconception -- it's actually a batch of orders. Every Wednesday, FTDNA batches all orders received since the previous Wednesday, and that batch of orders is then submitted to the two labs (one in Arizona, one in Houston). The lab in Arizona processes FTDNA's standard Y-DNA and mtDNA tests, while the lab in Houston processes advanced and specialty tests. Then within each lab, they divide up the orders based on the type of test and each tests gets processed separately.

The standard Y-DNA tests are split into panels of 1-12, 13-25, 26-37 and 38-67 markers for processing. The lab uses a 96-well plate for testing the DNA samples, which means that if there are more than 96 kits that ordered the same test in a batch, then there will be more than one plate that needs to get processed for that test & batch (and actually, I believe that gets reduced to 91 because they reserve a few wells for control samples),

And that's only part of the process that each batch (of orders) goes through. I was in Arizona this January and was able to get a comprehensive tour of the lab (which is how I learned most of this) -- I was amazed by the complicated processing that our DNA goes through from start to finish to get our final test results.

Elise

[CHRIS_A_CHGO]

It sounds as though you are frustrated with your experience thus far with some of the processes involved. Might I suggest that you redirect this feedback to the customer service department at family tree DNA (utilize the "contact us" feature on the website) or perhaps provide any suggestions that you have on the "Which features would be nice to have at FTDNA" forum and perhaps make a suggestion that they handle the orders differently? That would most likely prove useful in voicing your concerns.
Thanks

Thank you for that sensible comment Elise, I have however selected compare from the whole database not just the project, yes I do understand the reason for no matches is that others with the same DNA have not tested yet, however in answer to others who do not seem to understand my confusion it stems from the fact that I regard a Batch number as meaning that the Batch will be processed at the same time and results will come together. Should this not be the case then perhaps the understanding of the word batch is different on this side of the Atlantic. Maybe FTDNA should forgo the use of batch numbers and give us all individual numbers(test kit maybe) and make no indication to due dates. The whole thing as far as I can see revolves around failed expectations, Ancestry did my cousins test in 11 days and several weeks later I am still waiting for my results to a similar level from FTDNA, I am not interested in all the products on offer but only on the tests I require and while the products offered by FTDNA may be superior to all others that matters little to me as I did not request those tests. All I expected was for results to come in at the same time (Batch) as everybody else's or to be notified if they did not.
I do not see this as a slanging match but only wish to register the fact that I personally feel I have not received the service I expected even though I may have received the service I paid for.
D J Butler
Bristol UK

[Daveb]

Dave,

Go to your User Preferences page and make sure you're set to be compared to the entire database, not just the projects you are in. If you're not already set to be compared to the entire database, select that option and click Save. Then check your matches again. If you still don't have any matches, why don't you give us some info about your results so that maybe we can give you some suggestions for what to do next.

Also, you may wish to view my free webinar, Introduction to Genetic Genealogy at Family Tree DNA. It goes over the Y-DNA, mtDNA and Family Finder tests and what they're used for, and at the end of the presentation it gives tips for making the most of your genetic genealogy experience. You can access it at http://www.relativeroots.net/webinars/

Genetic genealogy -- and genealogy in general -- requires time and patience. You can't expect it to give you all the answers you're looking for in one fell swoop.

Elise

Thank you for that sensible comment Elise, I have however selected compare from the whole database not just the project, yes I do understand the reason for no matches is that others with the same DNA have not tested yet, however in answer to others who do not seem to understand my confusion it stems from the fact that I regard a Batch number as meaning that the Batch will be processed at the same time and results will come together. Should this not be the case then perhaps the understanding of the word batch is different on this side of the Atlantic. Maybe FTDNA should forgo the use of batch numbers and give us all individual numbers(test kit maybe) and make no indication to due dates. The whole thing as far as I can see revolves around failed expectations, Ancestry did my cousins test in 11 days and several weeks later I am still waiting for my results to a similar level from FTDNA, I am not interested in all the products on offer but only on the tests I require and while the products offered by FTDNA may be superior to all others that matters little to me as I did not request those tests. All I expected was for results to come in at the same time (Batch) as everybody else's or to be notified if they did not.
I do not see this as a slanging match but only wish to register the fact that I personally feel I have not received the service I expected even though I may have received the service I paid for.
D J Butler
Bristol UK

[Linds]

It might have to do with the tests being done as well, and how many others in that batch are doing that test. A single SNP might take longer because it's a "custom" test. It could also be how they are grouping different tests in each match. I worked in biomedical research and have used Illumina microarrays for mouse genetics, and they can be very funny sometimes but it's a one shot test so typically it either works or doesn't work. Whereas I'm assuming Y-STR tests likely use PCR (polymerase chain reaction) to identify genotypes at each marker. PCR, even when done by robotics as is the case in companies like FTDNA (I did PCR by hand every day for 2 years straight), can have issues where one or multiple markers don't appear on the gel and different conditions and antibodies can make PCR results problematic. A single degree off in the temperature can ruin and entire batch. This can delay the timeliness of results if even just 1 marker is not showing reliable results.

I had two tests in batch 414....due 7/20. My Family Finder results came back 6 week early (beginning of June). I am still waiting patiently for my mtDNA results. And I'm not complaining. It's still 3 weeks from my estimated return date for my mtDNA results. I was just elated to have received my FF results (the test I was most anxious about) so early.

From the project I admin it seems that if someone's results are not returned by the estimated date, they often put a note within myFTDNA under pending results that states that there was a delay.

But it seems unreasonable to be getting angry about your results not being returned if it is not even yet your estimated return date. As someone previously said, if FTDNA had to continually update their customers where they are at in regards to their tests, they would get nothing done!! If it has been some days since your expected due date and you have no results and nothing on your myFTNDA pending results page, then perhaps giving them a call will give you some peace of mind.

I see no reason not to post. I suspect some gave better samples than others, so their test results are going to come out in the first cycle. Maybe they brushed their teeth too hard or the bottle was not capped tight enough or it was too cold or hot on the trip to the lab.

If it comes in the first cycle, all are happy. If it does not, then people who are getting their sample recycled should be happy that FTDNA is not going to charge extra for that. You might do better if it were collected by a doctor and hand delivered by a messenger, but I am not convinced of that, either.

If you are concerned or frustrated, email FTDNA. They are more than happy to discuss your concerns and information, particularly if you are articulate about specific concerns. They will answer you directly or redirect your answers to those in the know.

In the years I have been getting tested, I have been angry, frustrated, and confused about results, but they have been polite and informative every time. They are a motivated crowd who love their work, given the responses I have gotten from them.

I suppose they could keep batch dates a secret and you could just all get your results when you get them. Having done this for years now, I am excited every time someone starts getting results and just anticipate with excitement my own results. Engaging in blame storming is not a creative sport or a positive attitude.

As far as a choice between companies, feel free to try the rest, but this is the best. I had mine tested at Genebase and my second cousin was tested at Ancestry. After conversions, his mother compared his with mine from a Yahoo group. She thought he was one marker off, but after conversion they were the same.

My father and his grandfather were adopted. I had heard of them, but this proved the relationship. Now I at least have a Facebook connection with Shurvington side of the family. They are all hoping I will find out our original surname.

There is no question that FTDNA has provided the best service and the widest possible access to compare data. They run ysearch, mitosearch, and all these other matching services INSIDE FTDNA as well. I love competition because I am a devout capitalist, but FTDNA has set the standard for practices in testing, accuracy, service, and accessibility.

So, if you have questions, ask them. If you have frustrations, voice them. FTDNA has had its policies of keeping you informed about batch numbers and retesting for years, however. They are not going to change their policy of keeping us informed because we get antsy and ask questions.

I have no stock in them. I have no interest in them other than around my own results, but I do not see them changing their way of doing things just because you question them. If ANYTHING, they will find new ways to improve the service.

SO, I agree and disagree with Bruce on this.

I understand your frustration, but I feel the solution would be for the lucky ones that get results early to not post to the boards until the due date. My concern is that FTDNA, under growing pressure, may find it better to just hold all results until the due date. My understanding of your post is that you expect more communication from FTDNA -but what do you wnat? They gave you a target date, it has not arrived yet. Do you want an email every day/week to say your target date is still XX/XX? If this has to be done for every kit, the efforts to process those kits will be slowed down.

I have had early results, on time results and late results. I had some show up and disappear, to reappear later. All in all, I am very satisfied with FTDNA on processing kits. Target dates and probblities are so easy to misinterpret.

Bruce

[efgen]

Well we are making slow progress, now got 25 marker results out of 37. No matches at 25 so if they take longer with the 37 I guess it won't matter too much. All in all a dissapointing experience.

Dave,

Go to your User Preferences page and make sure you're set to be compared to the entire database, not just the projects you are in. If you're not already set to be compared to the entire database, select that option and click Save. Then check your matches again. If you still don't have any matches, why don't you give us some info about your results so that maybe we can give you some suggestions for what to do next.

Also, you may wish to view my free webinar, Introduction to Genetic Genealogy at Family Tree DNA. It goes over the Y-DNA, mtDNA and Family Finder tests and what they're used for, and at the end of the presentation it gives tips for making the most of your genetic genealogy experience. You can access it at http://www.relativeroots.net/webinars/

Genetic genealogy -- and genealogy in general -- requires time and patience. You can't expect it to give you all the answers you're looking for in one fell swoop.

Elise

[BruceG]

I understand your frustration, but I feel the solution would be for the lucky ones that get results early to not post to the boards until the due date. My concern is that FTDNA, under growing pressure, may find it better to just hold all results until the due date. My understanding of your post is that you expect more communication from FTDNA -but what do you wnat? They gave you a target date, it has not arrived yet. Do you want an email every day/week to say your target date is still XX/XX? If this has to be done for every kit, the efforts to process those kits will be slowed down.

I have had early results, on time results and late results. I had some show up and disappear, to reappear later. All in all, I am very satisfied with FTDNA on processing kits. Target dates and probblities are so easy to misinterpret.

Bruce

[Daveb]

Shambolic

Well what can I say, still waiting on results from Batch 413, yes I know the due date is July 6th. but others in this batch had results weeks ago but despite numerous comments on this board by many different customers FTDNA still seem unable to keep people informed. Do they not understand that when one sees results from a batch they are waiting on being discussed by others, who have their results, concerns are aroused that they have somehow lost the result or the sample has not come up to scratch. Please FTDNA, if it is a case of retest or some other delay, keep your customers informed and do not continue with this slapdash method of handing out a result here and there with no word at all to those still waiting. Your DNA quality may be without equal but your customer service via the web is a joke.
D J Butler
Bristol UK

[Daveb]

Partial results

Well we are making slow progress, now got 25 marker results out of 37. No matches at 25 so if they take longer with the 37 I guess it won't matter too much. All in all a dissapointing experience.

[ekc123]

I'm not saying that FTDNA is without faults... no company is completely perfect... but overall, FTDNA ranks far above any of the other DNA companies, in my opinion.

Elise

Agreed. The DNA research is helping me track my father's family, about which I knew very little beyond my immediate family. It offers a quality product. But, FTDNA could make it much more user-friendly by expanding the faqs and posting more information about one's order status on the myFTDNA homepage. For example, I ordered the yDNA 25 marker upgrade and then decided to order the 37 marker panel when they offered the sale. The yDNA 25 panel was batched immediately, but the other one has not been batched. I kept thinking that something was wrong with the order and only realized that they batch on Wednesdays after calling customer service. It would have been helpful if this information and more detailed explanations of the process itself, especially as it pertains to potential delays and so forth, were posted on the website in a central place. I couldn't find this information or even average test times on the faq section outside of one statement about the average overall test time being six weeks.

[efgen]

Seems to me that for some obscure reason you are protesting too loudly about Ancestry

There's no obscure reason. Accuracy of the result isn't the issue (except for the haplogroup assignment, which I'll discuss in a minute). Family Tree DNA's product offerings are simply far above and beyond what Ancestry offers. Ancestry offers two levels of Y-DNA tests, one or two levels of mtDNA tests, and nothing more. Family Tree DNA offers 5 standard levels of Y-DNA tests, 3 levels of mtDNA tests, autosomal testing (Family Finder), plus an extremely wide array of add-on SNP and STR tests.

Also, FTDNA guarantees that they will provide you with a definitive backbone haplogroup assignment through their SNP Assurance Program -- if they cannot confidently predict a customer's backbone haplogroup, they will do the necessary SNP test to determine it for free. Ancestry, on the other hand, does no SNP testing at all, and I've heard too many stories about their backbone haplogroup predictions being wrong. If you're in one of the common European haplogroups, like R1b1b2, they'll probably get it right. But if you're in one of the less common haplogroups, or if you happen to have any strange marker values, it can throw off their predictor and they'll simply assign whatever seems to be the closest match and not bother to confirm it.

If you want to test with a second company to cross-check your results, by all means. I just don't recommend that anyone test with Ancestry as the primary or only DNA company they test with. This opinion comes from my 5+ years doing genetic genealogy as a customer, project administrator and more. I've lost count of how many times I've answered posts on various forums and in private email from confused and unhappy people who tested with Ancestry and wished they had tested with FTDNA instead.

I'm not saying that FTDNA is without faults... no company is completely perfect... but overall, FTDNA ranks far above any of the other DNA companies, in my opinion.

Elise