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  • #91
    Originally posted by Johnserrat
    Waiting for deep SNP results since APRIL? I hope Rick is getting this test for free.
    You bring up a crucial issue: Is DNA testing a commercial enterprise, or a branch of medicine?

    In a commercial enterprise, if a product that has already been paid for is very late, with hope for final delivery waning instead of growing, the vendor will often offer (or the customer will demand) a refund. This is simply honest business practice. Ironically, the customer will often choose to "stick it out" anyway, at least a while longer, but will feel better about the situation because he was at least given the choice of a refund instead.

    In contrast, medicine follows the rule that everything requires payment but nothing is guaranteed. You have to pay for every prescription, every operation, every 'consultation', even if any or all of the above are absolutely worthless, harmful, or even death-causing and clearly negligent.

    It is unfortunate that FTDNA's web site still implies a medicinal model. FTDNA stresses that it does not guarantee anything, but nevertheless never gives refunds. Eventually, I think, this approach will have to change, if only to increase customer confidence in the field.

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    • #92
      no need to be rude...

      I agree with Rick: FTDNA people have always been kind and professional when answering my e-mails (yes, Darroll, I know they can be e-mailed, so I've done more than once) and I still believe they're really doing a good job. I only intended to remark that some improvement should be done to keep track of our "pending results". I am not forcing anyone to obtain some results that I assume to be difficult to obtain, I only ask for a new schedule. That's all. And yes, perhaps there's too much complaining about this subject in this forum. Sorry if I helped to increase it, but I think I deserve to be informed for what I paid. Anyway, this should'nt give anybody the right to be so rude...

      Wallander R1b1c / U5a

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      • #93
        Originally posted by lgmayka
        Your quote was entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand. You quoted the procedure for the initial testing of a sample. Once a sample has successfully produced results, FTDNA has given no good explanation of how it can "go bad" for the next test.
        No matter how often this gets repeated, it never becomes more true.

        Even in the best of circumstances, biological samples degrade: it is a fact of life. Moreover, a sample that produces a conclusive result on one test will not necessarily produce a conclusive result on another test even if it doesn't degrade: some tests are simply more tolerant of weak scrapes and/or contamination than others.

        Besides, many of the delays are not caused by samples "going bad". Problematic primers, unusual insertions and deletions, etc. can cause inconclusive results and force the lab to rerun the tests. If they've already run it twice on one swab, they move onto the next as a matter of policy. There is no way to know a priori whether the test was the problem or whether the sample was.

        I agree that FTDNA could do a better job of communicating with customers about delays, but any conspiracy theories about broad-based problems with extraction and amplification are unfounded.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Jim Barrett
          Darroll,

          You got it right. The results are late because FTDNA is trying to be sure that the results are correct.

          For those who want quick results please go to a company that doesn't care any more about the accuracy of your results than your complaining indicates you do!

          I know there are some people out there who won't like my message, but the truth hurts. I'll agree that FTDNA could do a better job of keeping us posted about late results, but that really isn't much to complain about. If you are only 10 years old, that means you have already gone 10 years without knowing your results, even another year isn't going to make any difference.
          truth hurts?...what are you talking about?

          Do you see the topic here?

          If you don't like people who are discussing where/why their results are not back, maybe you should avoid this topic, at least untill your results are late.
          Last edited by M.O'Connor; 20 November 2006, 10:15 AM.

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          • #95
            When there's a reason

            To be fair to FDTNA team, I wish to quote the answer I've just received from Max Blankfeld, with a sound reason for the delays with SNP tests... And I hope it will be useful even for those who don't like to see people complaining here. Thanks, Max!:

            I can perfectly understand the frustration, and I am frustrated as well. On the other hand I have good news, as those results should be coming in the next 10 days.
            Let me explain what happened.
            The lab had all the assays calibrated to perform all the SNP tests related to the R1b deep clade. At one point, however, we started having problems with the assays for P66 and M37, and those had to be re-calibrated. Every time we though the problem was resolved - it was not quite the case. This is what led to the extensive delay in delivery of many of the pending R1b tests. About one week ago the lab succeeded in the re-calibration, all the pending samples were moved into testing, and results should be coming in the next 10 days.
            I am deeply sorry for the delay and the inconvenience that this may have caused.
            Please accept our apologies.

            E-mail anytime!

            Max Blankfeld
            Vice-President, Operations and Marketing

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            • #96
              Not that I'm assigning blame to a particular DNA haplogroup

              I'd like to know if the delay only affected the R1b tests or did it have a ripple effect on the speed in which everyone gets their results.

              The reason I'm wondering this is that "within the next 10 days" is good news. If we're all affected by the first delay, it would give hope to know that we can all be affected by the resolution of what caused that delay.

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              • #97
                That looks like good news, Wallander. Thanks.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Andrew M
                  I'd like to know if the delay only affected the R1b tests or did it have a ripple effect on the speed in which everyone gets their results.
                  Actually, neither.

                  They delays are not only on the R1b tests. Some other SNP panels have been problematic, and so have some of the "standard" panels for some people.

                  The problems with the R1b tests have not, to my knowledge, impacted overall lab throughput. The delays are product specific, and tests are not being held up by problems on other tests.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by vineviz
                    Actually, neither.

                    They delays are not only on the R1b tests. Some other SNP panels have been problematic, and so have some of the "standard" panels for some people.

                    The problems with the R1b tests have not, to my knowledge, impacted overall lab throughput. The delays are product specific, and tests are not being held up by problems on other tests.
                    Thanks for letting me know how it works. I guess that's both good news and bad news. I thought, though, that there was an overall 2 or 3 week delay because panels are being checked out for too much or too little Bill Cullen (although someone from my 171 batch got his mtDNA results over a week early).

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                    • Part of the email response I recieved today says

                      "Today I received notice from the lab that all samples have now been pulled and they have begun testing on these overdue samples. We are planning to have these tests expedited and are pushing to see these results by the end of November. If they don’t make it by the end of the month, they will arrive in early December"

                      aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaa

                      3 more weeks.

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                      • Originally posted by Andrew M
                        I thought, though, that there was an overall 2 or 3 week delay because panels are being checked out for too much or too little Bill Cullen (although someone from my 171 batch got his mtDNA results over a week early).
                        I don't understand the reference to Bill Cullen, but yes, another poster quoted an email saying that some yDNA panels were also undergoing recalibration, and hence delaying results for a couple of weeks. At this point, most overdue results in my project are in the yDNA upgrades: 26-37 and 38-67.

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                        • Sorry for the obscure reference, but Bill Cullen has been on many successfull panels (game show variety) http://userdata.acd.net/ottinger/cullen/

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                          • Originally posted by M.O'Connor
                            If you don't like people who are discussing where/why their results are not back, maybe you should avoid this topic, at least untill your results are late.
                            What I don't like is people talking about things they don't understand and refuse to accept valid explanations. You have proved my point by suggesting that I haven't had late results. Thanks for your help.

                            As for avoiding this topic, I normally do. I just wanted to see if people where still not understanding why their results were late after they have been told so many time. I'll check back in another year or two.

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                            • Yes, they have my email address. They have no problem sending me a newsletter.

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                              • Any dates for 172 full mtDNA results?

                                I have mtDNA kit number 42 (or 46, I forget), which I think means that I was one of the first Family Tree DNA customers. I think getting the results back must have taken something like 6 months. It's just good to keep all this in perspective and remember the fact that they can do any of this at all is a miracle.

                                Anyhow: I'm one of the people now consumed with curiosity about Batch 172 results and hoping that I didn't mess up my sample.

                                Has anyone gotten any Batch 172 results back now? What about full mtDNA results? Any new dates for full mtDNA reseults? Can Family Tree DNA put some kind of scientifically designed hypotic neuro brain thingy animation on its site that will help reduce my level of suspense? Pretty please?

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