Alumni Batch Lore Pad

[GvdM]

OK, Now I get it, Had to have efgen explain it to me

[ragnar]

The military supposedly has contingency plans for EVERYTHING!

[DMac]

Hey, when did the U.S. annex PEI?? That's news to me!

You haven't heard? It was in all the morning papers and the evening news.

[efgen]

Hey, when did the U.S. annex PEI?? That's news to me!

[GvdM]

Identy theft is laughable.

It may be to you but that is what you would be charged with in many countries. For example: say you were from an illegitimate line of a noble Dutch family. You had the surname. You have the arms embroidered (sp?) on your suitcase and trot off to Holland.

Those very arms are protected by the Hoge Raad van Adel (Dutch council of Nobility) and the Queen. You have now landed yourself in very serious trouble, as it would be identity theft and impersonating nobility. Remember, things discussed on the internet are not the province of the United States of America but you should take into consideration to whom the discussions are taking place with. This is not a US board but and international clientele.

In addition heraldry is used quite extensively in genealogy to determine linage, branches, legitimate and illegitimate lines. As genealogists I would think that also would be respected.

[M.O'Connor]

yea..well I inherited the name, i didn't ask for it.

Identy theft is laughable.

The oldest son thing sounds good. If they weren't eliminated by another kin or brother or whoever.

[GvdM]

Coat of Arms

Displaying arms that are not legitimate through inheritance is akin to identity theft. America or not it is a slap in the face to the families that do honor the tradition and heraldic law. Believe it or not it is a very serious subject to many families.

That is all I will say on that topic.

kind regards
George

[Stevo]

I don't have any problems personally with people displaying a coat of arms of some long dead person...especially one whose line has daughtered out. I would not however display the arms of the current chief of Clan MacMillan and claim them as my own. In my mind, the biggest issue are the companies that advertise "We have you family's coat of arms for sale." That's just false advertising and taking advantage of an unsuspecting/gullible consumer.

Well, you're right about all that.

But you have a Scottish surname with an ongoing clan tradition.

I think (but cannot confirm yet) that my own immigrant ancestor was a poor German who left Europe to get away from its incessant wars and various oppressions and whose coat of arms was the sweaty shirt on his back.

Personally, I have little interest in coats of arms (unless there's money in it).

[DMac]

I agree. Besides, we North Americans are not bound by Old World conventions.

If you believe you have a familial relationship, then fly the colors.

I don't have any problems personally with people displaying a coat of arms of some long dead person...especially one whose line has daughtered out. I would not however display the arms of the current chief of Clan MacMillan and claim them as my own. In my mind, the biggest issue are the companies that advertise "We have you family's coat of arms for sale." That's just false advertising and taking advantage of an unsuspecting/gullible consumer.

[DMac]

Association through dna matching with someone who knows their family history will be good enough for me.

What is the point of a last name? if you can't celebrate the colours associated with the name?

That's why I like the Gaelic idea of throwing the bone to the clan members by allowing them to display the badge.

you Vikings are all the same..

[Stevo]

Association through dna matching with someone who knows their family history will be good enough for me.

What is the point of a last name? if you can't celebrate the colours associated with the name?

you Vikings are all the same..

I agree. Besides, we North Americans are not bound by Old World conventions.

If you believe you have a familial relationship, then fly the colors.

[Stevo]

Here is my coat of arms.

It's in my blood (but not when I'm driving).

[M.O'Connor]

Association through dna matching with someone who knows their family history will be good enough for me.

What is the point of a last name? if you can't celebrate the colours associated with the name?

you Vikings are all the same..

[GvdM]

Mike,

Except for a few examples from Eastern Europe, a coat of arms does not belong to anyone that happens to share a surname. A coat of arms belongs to an individual, not the family. I do believe the right to bear a coat of arms may be inheritable but I'm not positive about that point. You could 'adapt' a coat of arms and have it registered in some countries. The U.S. is not generally one of them, though.

Gaelic tradition allows family members to display the 'Crest' part of an entire coat of arms in a buckled setting as a clan badge. An example of the Clan MacMillan's badge can be found at the top of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mcmillanmai...MacMillan.html

DMac is correct. A coat of arms only passes down the male line of the family. In the English system the oldest male son inherits the arms of the father, the younger sons have a difference on the shield to show their position. In continental Europe it is common that all sons inherit the arms without difference, but always in direct line to the father. So basically, there is no such thing as a "Murphy"Coat of arms.

If you cannot prove direct male descent to the original arminger you cannot bear the arms.

[DMac]

I'd like to have my coat of arms embroidered on a denim vest. I could Fly my own family colours.

First i have to find out which coat of arms my ancestor was associated with.

So the wait for my genetic match continues...

http://www.araltas.com/features/oconnor/

Mike,

Except for a few examples from Eastern Europe, a coat of arms does not belong to anyone that happens to share a surname. A coat of arms belongs to an individual, not the family. I do believe the right to bear a coat of arms may be inheritable but I'm not positive about that point. You could 'adapt' a coat of arms and have it registered in some countries. The U.S. is not generally one of them, though.

Gaelic tradition allows family members to display the 'Crest' part of an entire coat of arms in a buckled setting as a clan badge. An example of the Clan MacMillan's badge can be found at the top of this page: http://home.comcast.net/~mcmillanmai...MacMillan.html