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  • Why didn't they just call it He-Brew?


    I used to visit an Irish style pub in Toronto's east end. I used to like this Smithwicks brew. (i think it is 7%?)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithwicks

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    • Originally posted by Paulie
      My sample just got added to batch 162(SuperDNA), so it will be a few weeks before I probably join the Polish project.

      MT side I have some documents that point to Warzawa or Wroclaw around the turn of the 20th century, but great grandmother's name sounds more german/prussian? Results should be interesting. Y side is an open question, since I have zero info.

      My birth surname was different than my father, who was adopted and changed his name, with my surname being my mother's married name at the time and then I changed my surname to my wife's very polish one. I bet people like me make surname project managers weep a little.
      First, you will be very welcome on the Polish project, if/when you choose to join. The "worst" that can happen is that you find another project you feel more at home in, and switch to that one (though there are ways to stay in two projects, even two geographical ones).

      I do hope, though, that you got a discount by ordering through some project. I think that FTDNA should post a notice to those about to pay full price, saying, "WARNING--You are missing out on a significant price discount by ordering outside of a project. Do you want to check the list of projects, and see about joining one?"

      Ordinarily, the combination of Polish (or Lithuanian or Belarusian or Ukrainian) birth, combined with a Germanic surname, often implies Jewish ancestry. This is because, in the old Polish-Lithuanian Republic, the Jewish community was mostly self-governing and chose to continue its tradition of patronymics (e.g., Joshua bar/ben Nathan). When much of the Republic came under Prussian and Austrian rule, those empires required Jews to choose "regular" surnames, typically Germanic ones.

      Note, however, that this does not mean that every Germanic surname in Poland is Jewish. My own grandfather was raised by a stepfather named Buch (German-sounding and indeed probably German or Austrian, though it could possibly be native Polish too). In his case, his father died when he was young; his mother remarried, to a man who was willing and able to raise her several small children.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Stevo
        Hey, we've been chatting about beer, so I think we must be in a lull.

        Have you tried Hebrew Beer yet?
        A local Presbyterian church just opened a Starbucks style coffee bar in their fellowship meeting area. They named it He-Brews.

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        • Originally posted by Stevo
          Wow! You ordered the Super DNA test?

          I'm envious!

          In the end I probably would have saved money ordering that to begin with.
          I saved for a bit. I get a fraction of my paycheck that is my play money. I've been thinking about doing this since the Seven Daughters book came out in the US (I have it in hard cover), just never did it.

          My big motivation is we are due our first child in November, and I finally decided not to hold off anymore. I can save for more toys later, if it's not needed for diapers.

          It's an interesting topic for me, and I'm able today to give samples. If it's cool enough, maybe I can talk the spouse into getting her MTdna done, and get her father a SuperDNA for x-mas.

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          • Originally posted by lgmayka
            I do hope, though, that you got a discount by ordering through some project. I think that FTDNA should post a notice to those about to pay full price, saying, "WARNING--You are missing out on a significant price discount by ordering outside of a project. Do you want to check the list of projects, and see about joining one?"
            No I didn't, but that's not as big a concern for me. Some extra margin to FTDNA is fine, keeps the business going.

            Ordinarily, the combination of Polish (or Lithuanian or Belarusian or Ukrainian) birth, combined with a Germanic surname, often implies Jewish ancestry. This is because, in the old Polish-Lithuanian Republic, the Jewish community was mostly self-governing and chose to continue its tradition of patronymics (e.g., Joshua bar/ben Nathan). When much of the Republic came under Prussian and Austrian rule, those empires required Jews to choose "regular" surnames, typically Germanic ones.
            Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, not Republic. I was unsuccessful with negotiating the middle our child after "King" Jadwiga... ya win some, ya lose some.

            On the MT side, the farthest I can go back is to surname Baerler three generations ago. This is quite rare name going by Google and phonebooks. Found a town in Germany in the Rhine region called Baerl though. What's interesting is I also have US death certificates that show Warsaw as place of birth for two generations ago, but Census records shows Prussia with Poland noted next to it.

            I was actually thinking along the lines of possible Jewish ancestry, and mentioned to the spouse earlier this week on a hunch with no data. Does migration to the US around say between 1880-1900 affect that interpretation, and how about region where they ended up living (i.e. Chicago) around that timeline?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paulie
              Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, not Republic. I was unsuccessful with negotiating the middle our child after "King" Jadwiga... ya win some, ya lose some.
              ...
              What's interesting is I also have US death certificates that show Warsaw as place of birth for two generations ago, but Census records shows Prussia with Poland noted next to it.

              I was actually thinking along the lines of possible Jewish ancestry, and mentioned to the spouse earlier this week on a hunch with no data. Does migration to the US around say between 1880-1900 affect that interpretation, and how about region where they ended up living (i.e. Chicago) around that timeline?
              The Polish word 'Rzeczpospolita' is a very literal translation of the Latin 'res publica', and was clearly meant to mean exactly that, a republic; and that it is exactly what it was, by 1569. The 'king' was essentially a modern president, elected by all the nobility (10-15% of the population), his authority was strictly and severely limited by a constitution and a personal compact, a Senate committee had the continuing assignment to monitor his behavior, etc. The modern Polish state continues to call itself a 'Rzeczpospolita'.

              As far as I can find, the only reason for the early translation of 'Rzeczpospolita' as 'Commonwealth' is that even Renaissance England was unable to stomach the concept of a nation that did not need or want a hereditary monarchy, and thus had to devise a euphemism for it. Nevertheless, I admit that 'Commonwealth' is apparently the more traditional translation during that period, illogical though that may be.

              Warsaw, and indeed much of Poland, was under Prussian/German occupation, and considered by the German Empire to be part of its Reich, until World War I. Indeed, until 1918, all Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians would have had to write 'Germany', 'Austria-Hungary', or 'Russia' as their official country of origin, because all four nations were entirely occupied by the three neighboring empires (two of them despotic, the Austrian one much less so).

              In itself, migration around 1880-1900 and settlement in Chicago could just as easily apply to both Jews and Gentiles.
              Last edited by lgmayka; 22 July 2006, 05:30 AM.

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              • Thanks Igmayka, awesome responses; and most appreciated!

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                • Thursday and Friday my family and I took a little trip here in our home state. We visited the Luray Caverns, the American Frontier Culture Museum, and Natural Bridge.

                  It was fun.

                  The Frontier Culture Museum was especially cool. It is a large, open site with several working farms from the period from 1690 through the 1850s. If you want to see how your ancestors actually lived, I highly recommend it.

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                  • Originally posted by Stevo
                    Thursday and Friday my family and I took a little trip here in our home state. We visited the Luray Caverns, the American Frontier Culture Museum, and Natural Bridge.

                    It was fun.

                    The Frontier Culture Museum was especially cool. It is a large, open site with several working farms from the period from 1690 through the 1850s. If you want to see how your ancestors actually lived, I highly recommend it.
                    The caverns are great place to go when the heat is on.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DMac
                      The caverns are great place to go when the heat is on.
                      Very true. It was about 50-55 degrees F down there. When we got out we went and did the maze, though, where it was 90+. It was a beautiful day, with blue skies and plenty of sun, so it was great.

                      I enjoyed the Frontier Culture Museum best of everything I saw on that little trip. It was like stepping back in time.

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                      • Originally posted by DMac
                        The caverns are great place to go when the heat is on.
                        If you're ever happen to be in southern Poland, the Wieliczka salt mine is very impressive; it's quite a long walk down by stairs...

                        Main English Site: http://www.kopalnia.pl/home.php?action=&id_language=2&

                        Check out the Aug 27th link, shows some very nice pics.

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                        • Originally posted by Paulie
                          If you're ever happen to be in southern Poland, the Wieliczka salt mine is very impressive; it's quite a long walk down by stairs...

                          Main English Site: http://www.kopalnia.pl/home.php?action=&id_language=2&

                          Check out the Aug 27th link, shows some very nice pics.
                          I saw something about that on the History Channel once (or maybe it was the Travel Channel?).

                          It looked fantastic.

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                          • how are the SNP's comming along?

                            Has anybody recieved all their snp's yet?

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                            • not everyone at once.. I write slowly.

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                              • Originally posted by M.O'Connor
                                how are the SNP's comming along?

                                Has anybody recieved all their snp's yet?
                                FTDNA released (partial) results from some R1b individuals last week. Otherwise, I have seen no recent deepSNP results at all in my project. Many deepSNP tests are now overdue. I don't mean individual failed tests but entire test suites that should have been run by now.

                                Here are all the overdue deepSNP tests in the Polish project:

                                NO RESULTS RELEASED AT ALL
                                Batch 137: R1a
                                Batch 144: R1a
                                Batch 161: I, J

                                PARTIAL RESULTS RELEASED
                                Batch 141: R1a
                                Batch 145: R1b
                                Batch 151: J
                                Batch 155: G, R1b
                                Batch 160: G

                                And of course, more will come due in the next few weeks, in batches 162 and 164.

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