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  • I've been checking out the new haplotrees and it's good news for R1b, being the largest haplogroup for Europeans. There are more subgroups now, which is actually to be expected. I think it may be some time before we get the full story on the subclades since they are all so new. The Genographic Project is a 5-year project that's only a year or so old now. Imagine what we'll know four years from now about the haplotree and what we'll know about R1b

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    • Originally posted by JTCullen
      I've been checking out the new haplotrees and it's good news for R1b, being the largest haplogroup for Europeans. There are more subgroups now, which is actually to be expected. I think it may be some time before we get the full story on the subclades since they are all so new. The Genographic Project is a 5-year project that's only a year or so old now. Imagine what we'll know four years from now about the haplotree and what we'll know about R1b
      That is interesting. The males in my mom's paternal line tested R1b. Our immigrant ancestor on that side came from England; so, without deep clade testing, it's nearly impossible to tell whether his R1b came from the Celts, the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, or the Vikings. It could have been any of those things or perhaps even something else.

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      • Even if you do have the deep clade test done, there is still the issue of interpretation. Right now I don't believe there is an authority on earth that could give adequate explanation of some of the R1b subgroups. It's all so new... but on the flipside it's only a matter of time before they get meaningful interpretations for the subgroups.

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        • Originally posted by JTCullen
          Even if you do have the deep clade test done, there is still the issue of interpretation. Right now I don't believe there is an authority on earth that could give adequate explanation of some of the R1b subgroups. It's all so new... but on the flipside it's only a matter of time before they get meaningful interpretations for the subgroups.
          I guess it all depends on gathering data from the regions of origin for some of those groups. I remember reading the study by Weale, et al, on population replacement in England. That study concluded that a substantial amount of replacement had occurred in northern, eastern, and central England, and that the Y-DNA from there did not differ significantly from the Y-DNA of Denmark, Schleswig-Holstein, and Friesland. Some of that is I1a, but a substantial proportion of it is the various clades of R1b.

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          • You nailed it! I'll most likely be some subgroup of R1b or possibly I1. My 25 marker test should be a good predictor to start. You know, there was a good up-to-date graphic of the haplotree somewhere but having trouble locating it now though I have a copy on the hard drive. Not to plug a competitor, but ethnoancestry has very good info and link pages where I've found some of the most interesting stuff.

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            • Found it - should of known - right here at family tree dna.

              2005 Phylogenetic Tree

              Hope they update this. Somewhere they have enlarged portions of this graphic as well.

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              • at least a couple of haplotrees are around

                There are at least a couple of haplotrees around. The isogg one is more up to date, at least for J2 (http://isogg.org/tree/index.html). J2 has an annoying new SNP they've discovered that splits the branch in half up at the top. We go from being j2e1b to being j2b1a, and a lot more confused about how our DNA got to France (from Nepal? from Iraq to Greece, then to Nepal and France? Huh?)
                Your results from ftdna will be on their tree of course. I know the tree makes nice shorthand, but it really is better sometimes to talk about SNP's; once you have one it doesn't go away
                steve

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                • Originally posted by sitiv1
                  There are at least a couple of haplotrees around. The isogg one is more up to date, at least for J2 (http://isogg.org/tree/index.html).
                  ...
                  Your results from ftdna will be on their tree of course.
                  One of the difficulties we FTDNA clients have is that FTDNA's specialty is STRs and genealogy, not SNPs and deep ancestry. In contrast, ethnoancestry.com apparently specializes in SNPs, and the results of its SNP discoveries are reflected in the ISOGG haplotree, but are not reflected in FTDNA's so-called deep-subclade tests. FTDNA's reply to my email query indicated that FTDNA only tests for SNPs that are well-published or that happen to have been discovered at FTDNA itself.

                  I myself have therefore decided not to bother with an FTDNA deep-subclade test. (I already know that I am a Dinar I1b, which is about as much as FTDNA's test would tell me.) Perhaps when ethnoancestry.com or another company finds some more subclades within the Dinar I1b group, I will arrange for a test. I may be waiting a long time, though. Reasonably enough, all of the DNA testing companies tend to focus their efforts on the ethnic groups with the most disposable income and oldest surnames--i.e., those descended from the British Isles.
                  Last edited by lgmayka; 1 May 2006, 09:32 AM.

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                  • This place lets you choose which markers you want. http://www.dnaheritage.com/surnameprojects.asp


                    There sure is a lot of dna related stuff on the net.


                    ...today is may 1st...3 weeks or so to go (till 147's target date)

                    c'mon 147

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                    • Originally posted by lgmayka
                      One of the difficulties we FTDNA clients have is that FTDNA's specialty is STRs and genealogy, not SNPs and deep ancestry. In contrast, ethnoancestry.com apparently specializes in SNPs, and the results of its SNP discoveries are reflected in the ISOGG haplotree, but are not reflected in FTDNA's so-called deep-subclade tests. FTDNA's reply to my email query indicated that FTDNA only tests for SNPs that are well-published or that happen to have been discovered at FTDNA itself.

                      I myself have therefore decided not to bother with an FTDNA deep-subclade test. (I already know that I am a Dinar I1b, which is about as much as FTDNA's test would tell me.) Perhaps when ethnoancestry.com or another company finds some more subclades within the Dinar I1b group, I will arrange for a test. I may be waiting a long time, though. Reasonably enough, all of the DNA testing companies tend to focus their efforts on the ethnic groups with the most disposable income and oldest surnames--i.e., those descended from the British Isles.
                      My impression is that Ethnoancestry is doing a lot of work on the subclades of R1b, but not as much on the other haplogroups. Am I wrong?

                      I think that may be because Ethnoancestry is a British company. With the prevalence of R1b in Western Europe, I am sure there must be a big market for more specificity within that haplogroup.

                      Supply and demand.

                      Of course, there are a lot of Is in Britain, as well. So maybe Ethnoancestry will do some work in that direction, too.

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                      • ...............
                        Last edited by Cox; 1 May 2006, 12:56 PM.

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                        • Well, is anyone from batch 139? It has now been exactly 3 months since I ordered my Deep Subclade. I know that FTDNA has had problems---not intially making enough dna to run and having to manually/individually dilute more dna from the concentrate etc... The last I have written to Mr. Greenspan the results were to be back soon ; prior to that it was in his opinion that this batch would "be cleared by" 4/14 or 4/17. The results originally were to be finished 3-22-06 and interestingly this past Friday I noticed on my home page that the results would be back on "3-27-06". The 27th of March...well, that's long past due as well As I mentioned to Mr. Greenspan a lot of frustration would be alleviated (at least on my part) if FTDNA would simply update and inform its customers of the progress or lack there of. Again, has anyone received their results from batches surrounding the #139? I ordered mine 2-1-06. Thanks.

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                          • I've just received a reply from Mr Greenspan regarding the idea of an updated FAQ as a better way to explain to customers how their sample is being processed and any reasons for possible delays. Any improved feedback would be appreciated by everyone I believe. His response was simple but promising.

                            Excellent suggestion. I'll work to get this idea implemented... thanks for the input.
                            His response was very quick, first thing Monday morning. That sort of attention to customers input is very much appreciated. I can't wait to see what they come up with!

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                            • Originally posted by Stevo
                              Of course, there are a lot of Is in Britain, as well. So maybe Ethnoancestry will do some work in that direction, too.
                              Yes, Ethnoancestry has indeed done some work on I, particularly on I1c. Unfortunately, their price--including the initial DNA extraction fee--is considerably higher than FTDNA's incremental price for so-called deep-subclade testing.

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                              • Sorry about your wait

                                I'm sorry you're having such a disappointing experience. I wonder what's up with your test?

                                I suspect that despite ftdna's old, automated way to tell people what is going on with their tests just isn't working. I really wouldn't mind hearing, "We left them in the oven too long, and they got burned, so we have to start over and let the dough rise again," or whatever. When you have a test in, you want to know if there is progress. My hvr1 is due 5/10 (later than the rest of batch 144; I don't know why). I find myself wondering if it will be done then, if it will be done early (my y12 was), or if the whole thing is failing at some step repeatedly.

                                I suspect ftdna is suffering from its own success; this is a difficult time in the life of a company. They need to keep growing, and they need to catch up with the growth they've already had. They need to provide accurate service fast enough that they don't kill the enthusiasm of the people who are paying for this. They need to keep their price down. They need to perfect the way they do things and they have to try new ways to do the same old things.

                                All this doesn't help you. I think most of our tests could be run in a few days if someone worked on it full time instead of doing it as part of a batch. Maybe they need to get someone working only on people who are very delayed (maybe they already have).

                                ftdna has always been very quick to respond to any questions I have asked them; maybe they can give you updates every few days about what is going on.

                                I wish you the best.

                                steve

                                Originally posted by Cox
                                Well, is anyone from batch 139? It has now been exactly 3 months since I ordered my Deep Subclade. I know that FTDNA has had problems---not intially making enough dna to run and having to manually/individually dilute more dna from the concentrate etc... The last I have written to Mr. Greenspan the results were to be back soon ; prior to that it was in his opinion that this batch would "be cleared by" 4/14 or 4/17. The results originally were to be finished 3-22-06 and interestingly this past Friday I noticed on my home page that the results would be back on "3-27-06". The 27th of March...well, that's long past due as well As I mentioned to Mr. Greenspan a lot of frustration would be alleviated (at least on my part) if FTDNA would simply update and inform its customers of the progress or lack there of. Again, has anyone received their results from batches surrounding the #139? I ordered mine 2-1-06. Thanks.

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