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  #1  
Old 17th September 2015, 10:29 PM
DavidB DavidB is offline
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Haplogroup vs Y-DNA markers

Sorry for such basic questions, but are the markers used to determine the haplogroup different from the ones used to determine a Y-DNA match?

If a haplogroup mutation occurred in a father's DNA, would his son still have a Y-DNA match with him?

Thank you,

David

Last edited by DavidB; 17th September 2015 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 17th September 2015, 11:01 PM
prairielad prairielad is offline
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STR markers (12 marker level) are used by FTDNA only to Predict haplogroup.
SNP testing by individual is needed to confirm.
If FTDNA can not confidently predict haplogroup based on first 12 markers, they fill run a free SNP test to determine basic haplogroup.

In regards to father son mutation, father and son will always match. Maybe not on the first 12 markers if it is a 1 to 2 step mutation which occurs with one of this levels STR markers, as the 12 marker level only shows exact matches with the exception that matches with a difference of 1 are also shown if the two people belong to the same Group project.

Edit
Father/son will also match haplogroups even if there is a SNP mutation. Son will just have a different SNP value, which later down the road(generations of SNP transmission) may get classified as a subclade of fathers Haplogroup subclade.

Last edited by prairielad; 17th September 2015 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 17th September 2015, 11:48 PM
dna dna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prairielad View Post
STR markers (12 marker level) are used by FTDNA only to Predict haplogroup.
SNP testing by individual is needed to confirm.
If FTDNA can not confidently predict haplogroup based on first 12 markers, they fill run a free SNP test to determine basic haplogroup.
More details can be found in the Family Tree DNA Learning Center How does Y-chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) haplogroup prediction work? https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...ps/prediction/

Quote:
Originally Posted by prairielad View Post
In regards to father son mutation, father and son will always match. Maybe not on the first 12 markers if it is a 1 to 2 step mutation which occurs with one of this levels STR markers, as the 12 marker level only shows exact matches with the exception that matches with a difference of 1 are also shown if the two people belong to the same Group project.
It was reported in the forum that father and son can differ in up to 3 markers. I would not try to limit those differences to any particular markers. Thus they are guaranteed to be matches in Y-DNA67 and Y-DNA111 results, as presented by FTDNA. However, matching at Y-DNA12, Y-DNA25 and Y-DNA37 might or might not happen. Most of father and son pairs match at all levels (regardless of Genetic Distance), however there is no guarantee of that.

Mr. W
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Old 17th September 2015, 11:50 PM
dna dna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
Sorry for such basic questions, but are the markers used to determine the haplogroup different from the ones used to determine a Y-DNA match? [----]
Haplogroups are defined by SNPs. STRs can only be used to guess a haplogroup.

Mr. W
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  #5  
Old 18th September 2015, 12:10 AM
DavidB DavidB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prairielad View Post

In regards to father son mutation, father and son will always match.
Thank you for your reply--I appreciate your help.

Will the father (with the mutation) have a Y-DNA match with his father?

David
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Old 18th September 2015, 01:12 AM
prairielad prairielad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post

It was reported in the forum that father and son can differ in up to 3 markers. I would not try to limit those differences to any particular markers. Thus they are guaranteed to be matches in Y-DNA67 and Y-DNA111 results, as presented by FTDNA. However, matching at Y-DNA12, Y-DNA25 and Y-DNA37 might or might not happen. Most of father and son pairs match at all levels (regardless of Genetic Distance), however there is no guarantee of that.

Mr. W
Yes I do realize that, my yDNA line itself varies by 4GD to 1st cousin, one marker a possible 2 step mutation. Brothers also have a GD of 1.

In reality it will be rare that a father and son will have more then 4 at the 37 marker level (3 difference will show as a match)
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Old 19th September 2015, 12:12 AM
dna dna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
[----] Will the father (with the mutation) have a Y-DNA match with his father?

David
Good question!

The same principle applies to any father-son pair. However, we statistically expect the mutations to not happen very often. So a nonzero Genetic Distance simultaneously for both father-son pairs is possible, just it is not expected.

Mr. W
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