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  #1  
Old 31st December 2014, 03:57 AM
bob armstrong bob armstrong is offline
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Pictish Discovery?

Prof Jim Wilson, who discovered S389, has kindly spent some valuable time analysing a number of S389+ testees. He points out that some 0.5% of British men are in the R1b-S389 group, and feels it should be included on ISOGG's tree. He has seen 33 surnames that have S389 so far.
Jim states that it is "very Eastern Scottish, focused on central Scotland & Aberdeenshire, with instances in Fife & E Lothian". He states that "The frequency distribution is a classic signature of Pictish type".
Jim suggests that S389+ testees get involved in Big Y or FGC chromosome testing to pinpoint the precise age of S389.He finishes by saying "If Y sequencing gives a young date, this looks to be another Pictish group! At the very least, it was carried by people who lived in what we now call Scotland, 2,000 or however many years ago."
I obtained Jim's permission to post his views.
Cheers,
Bob (S389+)
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Old 31st December 2014, 12:23 PM
1798 1798 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob armstrong View Post
Prof Jim Wilson, who discovered S389, has kindly spent some valuable time analysing a number of S389+ testees. He points out that some 0.5% of British men are in the R1b-S389 group, and feels it should be included on ISOGG's tree. He has seen 33 surnames that have S389 so far.
Jim states that it is "very Eastern Scottish, focused on central Scotland & Aberdeenshire, with instances in Fife & E Lothian". He states that "The frequency distribution is a classic signature of Pictish type".
Jim suggests that S389+ testees get involved in Big Y or FGC chromosome testing to pinpoint the precise age of S389.He finishes by saying "If Y sequencing gives a young date, this looks to be another Pictish group! At the very least, it was carried by people who lived in what we now call Scotland, 2,000 or however many years ago."
I obtained Jim's permission to post his views.
Cheers,
Bob (S389+)
Did Jim say that only those who are S389+ are descended from the Picts?
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  #3  
Old 31st December 2014, 12:47 PM
bob armstrong bob armstrong is offline
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No. Jim mentioned that R1b-S735 is a classic signature of Pictish type. I gather R1b-S735 is more common than S389. The interesting point is that, so far, most of the S389+ testees have some sort of link to N E Scotland.
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Old 31st December 2014, 03:19 PM
1798 1798 is offline
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Originally Posted by bob armstrong View Post
No. Jim mentioned that R1b-S735 is a classic signature of Pictish type. I gather R1b-S735 is more common than S389. The interesting point is that, so far, most of the S389+ testees have some sort of link to N E Scotland.
To find out the dna of the Picts they would have to do some testing on ancient remains considered to be Picts. So how would the achieve that? The Picts were a mysterious people.
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  #5  
Old 1st January 2015, 04:17 AM
bob armstrong bob armstrong is offline
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I don't have access to the data, so can't accurately comment. However, it is extraordinary just how N E Scottish S389 appears to be. Big Y & FGC will hopefully more accurately pinpoint the age of S389. It's going to be interesting to see if it falls within a 'Pictish' timeframe, or is even older.
I was categorized as 'Beaker Folk' origins, and many suggest that they were the Picts' ancestors.
I think the label isn't as important as the fact that S389 appears to be ancient Scottish.
As ever, more testees would be useful, but so far, I'm told, no S389 has been found on the continent of Europe.
Finally,Jim stated that he "didn't expect (his detailed analysis of S389) to be so exciting!". I take that to mean this has the potential to be extremely meaningful - particularly for Scotland.

Last edited by bob armstrong; 1st January 2015 at 04:22 AM.
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  #6  
Old 17th January 2015, 04:08 PM
PNGarrison PNGarrison is offline
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What older SNPs are upstream from S389? U106? P312? etc.
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  #7  
Old 24th January 2015, 08:25 AM
bob armstrong bob armstrong is offline
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It's under R-P312+, but not sure precisely where yet. S389 is known, in FTDNA's parlance, as L624. I'm L21-, L176.2-, Z196-, DF27-, Z245-, L459-.
Hope to get a more accurate idea of S389 once a few of us who are positive have Big Y or FMG results to compare.
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  #8  
Old 18th February 2015, 09:31 AM
AncientCelt AncientCelt is offline
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Wild Speculation

It seems the flow of wild speculation from Mr. Wilson continues, with no basis in fact to the picts. There are other SNPs that have been in Scotland far longer but I guess since they don't match Wilson, they can't be possible candidates. There is no evidence these snps are picts, they are probably Normans who settled in NE Scotland, not even really Scottish
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  #9  
Old 18th February 2015, 11:54 AM
Alexandrina Alexandrina is offline
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LOST PICTS ?

It is my understanding that S.P. Chromo 2 predicts S530 as the Pictish signature and this equates to L1335 in FTNDA terms.
Downstream Pict Clans it is argued are within: CTS11722> L1065 > S744

With MacGregors and their ILK being S691 S695 S690 and terminal S696 for the current Chief.

If Dr Wilson is correct regarding the 10% of Scottish men = L1335 / S530 and only Zero point eight of Englishmen 0.8% then we all will look forward to future peer review outcomes.

The MacGregors are said to descend from the House of Alpin - Kenneth McAlpin- The so named 'Pictish Kingdom' 840 CE- 1030 circa in Alba .
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Old 18th February 2015, 01:26 PM
1798 1798 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AncientCelt View Post
It seems the flow of wild speculation from Mr. Wilson continues, with no basis in fact to the picts. There are other SNPs that have been in Scotland far longer but I guess since they don't match Wilson, they can't be possible candidates. There is no evidence these snps are picts, they are probably Normans who settled in NE Scotland, not even really Scottish
Well said. Dr Wilson lives in fantasy island.
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