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  #11  
Old 20th September 2014, 02:37 AM
1798 1798 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T E Peterman View Post
This is no doubt a stretch... But I think it is likely that the y-DNA haplogroups associated with ANE were those descended from the branch of P that went north along the Pacific Coast, after spending millenia in the South China Sea area.

Those branches of P are known as Q and R. The population likely separated as it moved north into the temperate zone, with one population moving toward Beringia, and the other moving inland, ultimately following the steppe westward. Through genetic drift, the eastern group came to be dominated by Q & the western group by R. R probably spent the LGM in a refuge in or near Central Asia. The group that became R2 may have headed south toward Pakistan & India. The group that became R1 likely spent the LGM south of the Caucasus. As steppe hunters, it would be reasonable to suppose that by maybe 10,000 years ago, R1 had moved back to the steppe.

I suspect that between 5000 BC & 4000 BC, parts of both R1a & R1b were involved in horse domestication, and they thundered East & West on horseback, following the steppe and eventually moving beyond that. These were likely the folk that brought Indo-European languages and bronze tools & weapons into Europe, all on horseback. They probably arrived in Old Europe (ie, the Balkans) at about 4000 BC, after which that civilization disappears from the archaeological record. They probably arrived in central Europe (Austria, Germany, Switzerland) by 3000 BC or so.

The discovery of ANE (by scientists) supports the interpretation that R1b arrived in Europe just a few millenia ago from the East.

Linguists have long noted that, although there was a bit of borrowing in the PIE language from the Caucasian group, the core of PIE appears to be more closely related to the Nostratic or Eurasiatic superfamily, which includes Finno-Ugric, Uralic, Turkic, Manchurian, Japanese & more remotely, Amerindian. This is consistent with my suggestion that ANE brought the Indo-European languages into Europe.

Timothy Peterman
R1a is the more likely candidate to have brought the IE language's to western Europe.
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  #12  
Old 21st September 2014, 10:34 AM
T E Peterman T E Peterman is offline
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It has been pointed out that R1a matches strongly to the satem half of the Indo-European languages. Looking only at the R1b & R1a content of a population, I note the following:

1. In populations with a lot of R1b & almost no R1a, Celtic or Italic languages (both centum) are usually spoken.

2. In populations with a majority of R1b & a minority of R1a, Germanic languages (centum) are usually spoken.

3. In populations with a majority of R1a & a minority of R1b, Balto-Slavic languages (satem) are usually spoken.

4. In populations with a lot of R1a & almost no R1b, Indo-Iranian languages (satem) are usually spoken.

I'm sure that exceptions can be found. But from a 30,000 foot view, this is the picture that seems to emerge.

Because of this, I suspect that PIE was a blend of both R1b & R1a. The two haplogroups were probably separated by genetic drift in derived populations.

Timothy Peterman
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  #13  
Old 21st September 2014, 12:44 PM
1798 1798 is offline
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...05440314002982
"Abstract
In a previous study we presented a new method that used summed probability distributions (SPD) of radiocarbon dates as a proxy for population levels, and Monte-Carlo simulation to test the significance of the observed fluctuations in the context of uncertainty in the calibration curve and archaeological sampling. The method allowed us to identify periods of significant short-term population change, caveated with the fact that around 5% of these periods were false positives. In this study we present an improvement to the method by applying a criterion to remove these false positives from both the simulated and observed distributions, resulting in a substantial improvement to both its sensitivity and specificity. We also demonstrate that the method is extremely robust in the face of small sample sizes. Finally we apply this improved method to radiocarbon datasets from 12 European regions, covering the period 8000–4000 BP. As in our previous study, the results reveal a boom-bust pattern for most regions, with population levels rising rapidly after the local arrival of farming, followed by a crash to levels much lower than the peak. The prevalence of this phenomenon, combined with the dissimilarity and lack of synchronicity in the general shapes of the regional SPDs, supports the hypothesis of endogenous causes."

I think that this population explosion coincides with the origin of all the branches of R1b under L11 in western Europe.
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  #14  
Old 7th October 2014, 01:03 AM
Seth_Rogoff Seth_Rogoff is offline
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I had a go at this one...

These are my results! I'm still trying to understand all this as ony got my results back last night.

ANE 8.94%
ASE 1.50%
WHG-UHG 30.84%
East_Eurasian 1.90%
West_African -
East_African 1.77%
ENF 55.03%
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  #15  
Old 8th October 2014, 01:20 PM
angeljacoby angeljacoby is offline
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Hm, interesting. I got:

ANE 14.62%
ASE 5.67%
WHG-UHG 41.08%
East_Eurasian 20.18%
West_African 0.97%
East_African 2.92%
ENF 14.58%
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  #16  
Old 4th February 2015, 06:52 PM
IslaMel IslaMel is offline
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Population
ANE 13.67%
ASE 2.09%
WHG-UHG 61.37%
East_Eurasian 0.72%
West_African 0.30%
East_African 0.44%
ENF 21.41%
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  #17  
Old 5th February 2015, 07:32 AM
hazel_ion hazel_ion is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 153
Population
ANE 15.25%
ASE 1.59%
WHG-UHG 65.75%
East_Eurasian -
West_African 0.55%
East_African 0.80%
ENF 16.06%
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  #18  
Old 5th February 2015, 08:39 AM
1798 1798 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel_ion View Post
Population
ANE 15.25%
ASE 1.59%
WHG-UHG 65.75%
East_Eurasian -
West_African 0.55%
East_African 0.80%
ENF 16.06%
You are western European then. Where did your results from?
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  #19  
Old 5th February 2015, 01:10 PM
KATM KATM is offline
mtDNA: K1a3 | Y-DNA: R-L1308*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic coast, U.S.A.
Posts: 735
Here are my results:
Population
ANE...................11.61% (Ancient North Eurasian)
ASE......................0.06% (Ancestral South Eurasian)
WHG-UHG........51.07% (Western European/Unknown Hunter-Gatherer)
East_Eurasian.....1.13%
West_African.......0.43%
East_African........1.12%
ENF.....................34.58% (Early Neolithic Farmer)

Known Ancestry:
Father: paternal Irish/Irish, maternal German-Austrian/Swiss
Mother: paternal Greek/Greek, maternal Greek?/Maltese

Here is Davidski's description of his ANE K7 test: http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2014/0...es-ane-k7.html . In that, he says:
Quote:
The ANE component is not modeled on the Mal'ta boy or MA-1 genome, the main ANE proxy in scientific literature, because this sample didn't offer enough high quality markers for the job. So instead, I used the non-East Asian portions of several Karitiana genomes from the HGDP.
and this (with his emphasis in bold):
Quote:
Obviously, there are also six other ancestral components in this test (hence the K7 in the name). They're basically byproducts of me trying to isolate ANE, and don't necessarily mean anything. Nevertheless, here's a brief rundown of what I think some of them might represent...

Ancestral South Eurasian (ASE): this is a really basal cluster that peaks in tribal groups of Southeast Asia. It's probably very similar in some ways to the Ancestral South Indian (ASI) component described by Reich et al. a few years ago.

Western European/Unknown Hunter-Gatherer (WHG-UHG): this essentially looks like a West Eurasian forager component, and includes the forager-like stuff carried by Neolithic farmers (Oetzi the Iceman has 40% of it).

Early Neolithic Farmer (ENF): I'd say that this is the component of the earliest Neolithic farmers from the Fertile Crescent.
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  #20  
Old 5th February 2015, 07:23 PM
hazel_ion hazel_ion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
You are western European then. Where did your results from?

are you asking what my paper trail is ?
if so

Mom's mom's line~ English/Irish( colonial American)
Mom's dad's line ~ Sicilian (from Spain)
Father's mother's line~ German
father's father's line~ German/French/English/Irish

AKA ~ Mutt
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