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  #1  
Old 24th September 2006, 08:35 PM
LernerTzvi LernerTzvi is offline
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Jewish Haplogroup Origin Controversy

Here are the main points from this website which clarify the Jewish haplogroup: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

-The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.

-The Cohen Modal Haplotype, which belongs to haplogroup J, was a component of the ancient Israelite population.

-Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.

-About half of Ashkenazic Levites possess Eastern European non-Israelite haplotypes belonging to the R1a1 haplogroup. This is almost never found among Sephardic Levites, and may have been introduced into the Ashkenazic Levite lines by Slavs or Khazars who converted to Judaism.

-Samaritans are descended from Israelite men and Assyrian women.
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  #2  
Old 25th September 2006, 11:29 AM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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There is also a fair percentage of R1b among Sephardic Jews. This probably reflects western European influences on this population.
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  #3  
Old 25th September 2006, 01:16 PM
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Stevo Stevo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh w.
There is also a fair percentage of R1b among Sephardic Jews. This probably reflects western European influences on this population.
Seems to me a fairly sizeable proportion of the Ashkenazim are also R1b.
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Old 25th September 2006, 02:42 PM
Eki Eki is offline
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I don't get tying religion with genetics? I'm I1a, should I be practising Odinism?

http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/odinism.php

Last edited by Eki; 25th September 2006 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 25th September 2006, 03:56 PM
LeoLoS LeoLoS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
Seems to me a fairly sizeable proportion of the Ashkenazim are also R1b.
R1b seems mostly to to have been introduced to Ashkenazim by non-Jewish European and non-Jewish Near Eastern populations, according to http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.html :

"The best candidates for haplogroups that entered the AJ population recently via admixture include I-P19, R-P25, and R-M17. These haplogroups were thought to represent the major Paleolithic component of the European paternal gene pool... Because haplogroups R-M17 and R-P25 are present in non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations (e.g., at 4% and 10%, respectively) and in non-Jewish Near Eastern populations (e.g., at 7% and 11%, respectively; Hammer et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001), it is likely that they were also present at low frequency in the AJ founding population."
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Old 25th September 2006, 05:17 PM
LeoLoS LeoLoS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I don't get tying religion with genetics? I'm I1a, should I be practising Odinism?

http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/odinism.php
You didn't check the "bottom line" of the article:

Aish HaTorah exposes the myth of a separate Jewish race: "Jews are not a race. Anyone can become a Jew - and members of every race, creed and color in the world have done so at one time or another. There is no distinguishing racial physical feature common only to Jews."

About.com also exposes the myth: "Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years."

Rabbi Harold M. Schulweis explains the nature of Judaism: "One of the unique aspects of Judaism is its rejection of Judaism as a biological entity, an inherited spiritual DNA, racial or ethnic. The point is that being a Jew is not a matter of genes and chromosomes. To the contrary, Judaism is the first religion to recognize the 'ger', the stranger who chooses to identify himself with Judaism. Judaism is not rooted in race or clan or in a genetic matter but a religious tradition of choice."

The answer is that Jews are a religion and a civilization, but not a race or singular ethnic group (the latter two definitions marginalize proselytes). As Rabbi Rami Shapiro said: "There is only one response to Who is a Jew? that works: A Jew is one who takes Judaism seriously. One who takes Judaism seriously studies it, argues with it, and lives it."
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  #7  
Old 25th September 2006, 05:48 PM
Francois Francois is offline
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Jewish halplogroup origin

I was very unconfortable reading your comments and I feel it is an oversimplification. To be Jewish is not a matter of genes, it is a matter of faith. I am L2, at the present time, five of my "genetic cousins" are Jewish, their families come from Central and Eastern Europe , a few others are whatever else.....Religion is not in our genes but in your head or your soul

Catherine
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Old 25th September 2006, 06:39 PM
LernerTzvi LernerTzvi is offline
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This discussion is based on the origination of the first Jews. It is widely acknowledged and accepted that many Jews today are Jewish, but are not related to Jews from 2000 years or more. For those that don't believe in the legitimacy of Abraham, discard this post. For those that acknowledge the Torah that Abraham was the first annointed Jew, in which 12 tribes descended directly from him, read further. The intent of this post is for those that have ancestry from Jews from the birth of Judaism and are trying to understand where their patrilineal origin takes place.
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  #9  
Old 25th September 2006, 06:42 PM
LernerTzvi LernerTzvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois
I was very unconfortable reading your comments and I feel it is an oversimplification. To be Jewish is not a matter of genes, it is a matter of faith. I am L2, at the present time, five of my "genetic cousins" are Jewish, their families come from Central and Eastern Europe , a few others are whatever else.....Religion is not in our genes but in your head or your soul

Catherine
By the way, I extracted all of the comments from this website: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html

So whatever makes you uncomfortable, take it up with them.
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  #10  
Old 25th September 2006, 06:46 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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My main point was that haplogroups transcend religion. In other words people of different religions may be united by sharing common haplogroups. A related point is that the same religion may be comprised of various haplogroups. To some degree this is the result of conversion which supports the view that religion is the result of social experience not genetics.
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