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  #1  
Old 23rd May 2006, 02:12 AM
johnraciti
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Husband and wife share U5a1a haplogroup

A member of the Sicily Project received his mtDNA
result yesterday. It turns out that he and his wife,
another Sicily Project member, both are U5a1a!

Based on this Google search result for U5a1a -
http://www.davenportdna.com/haplogroups/mt_U5a1a.htm,
it seems that he and his wife share a maternal line
ancestor sometime in the last 20,000 years. Given that
both their recent ancestors were from Sicily, it's
quite possible that they share a recent ancestor from
Sicily.

I don't think it was that uncommon for cousins,
especially distant cousins, to marry in Sicily over
the last few hundred years. My paternal grandmother's
parents were first cousins, once removed. Her father's
mother was Giuseppa Cannizzaro and her mother's
maternal grandmother was Catarina Cannizzaro. Giuseppa
and Catarina were sisters. This meant that my
grandmother's father's grandparents were the same
people as my grandmother's mother's
great-grandparents. By the way, this would mean that
my grandmother's parents also had the same mtDNA
haplogroup.

I don't know how far back these Sicily Project members
have traced the strict maternal lines in their family
trees. Is it worth them upgrading to the HVR2 test to
see if there any differences there? If there are no
differences and especially if both of them share an
unusual HVR2 mutation for U5a1a, then that might
indicate a more recent common ancestor than 5,000 or
10,000 or 20,000 years ago. Is there any way, based on
sharing unusual HVR2 mutations, to estimate how far
back their common ancestor is?

Mike Maddi
  #2  
Old 15th August 2006, 04:47 AM
johnraciti
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366 Members in a group I started in April 2005.

I created a group based on my wife's and my dna results. It's going really well.

We are getting about 90 members joining each month.

You should check it out:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Nordic-Celtic/


Best Regards,
John
  #3  
Old 15th August 2006, 10:46 AM
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Stevo Stevo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnraciti
I created a group based on my wife's and my dna results. It's going really well.

We are getting about 90 members joining each month.

You should check it out:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Nordic-Celtic/


Best Regards,
John
That project is so huge I would feel lost in it.

I hope the following will not be interpreted in a pc fashion as racist. It is certainly not meant to be. It is meant merely as an observation of fact that raises a question in my mind.

I noticed at least two members of the Nordic-Celtic Project who are E3a, yet the project says:

"This project is open to both yDNA paternal lines and mtDNA maternal lines of Nordic and of Celtic-Iberian origins.

This project is designed to show evidence of deep ancestral patterns found within Celtic-Iberians and Scandinavian settlements throughout Europe."


How does E3a, essentially and unquestionably a sub-Saharan African y-haplogroup, fall within those parameters?

  #4  
Old 15th August 2006, 07:15 PM
GvdM GvdM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
That project is so huge I would feel lost in it.

I hope the following will not be interpreted in a pc fashion as racist. It is certainly not meant to be. It is meant merely as an observation of fact that raises a question in my mind.

I noticed at least two members of the Nordic-Celtic Project who are E3a, yet the project says:

"This project is open to both yDNA paternal lines and mtDNA maternal lines of Nordic and of Celtic-Iberian origins.

This project is designed to show evidence of deep ancestral patterns found within Celtic-Iberians and Scandinavian settlements throughout Europe."


How does E3a, essentially and unquestionably a sub-Saharan African y-haplogroup, fall within those parameters?


Because the project isn't designed for results but for how big a project can I make.
  #5  
Old 25th August 2006, 06:18 AM
Wena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo
"This project is open to both yDNA paternal lines and mtDNA maternal lines of Nordic and of Celtic-Iberian origins.

This project is designed to show evidence of deep ancestral patterns found within Celtic-Iberians and Scandinavian settlements throughout Europe."


How does E3a, essentially and unquestionably a sub-Saharan African y-haplogroup, fall within those parameters?
Stevo? Scandinavians does not all have the same forefather origin, and the same for the Celts. As you can see there are some Scandinavian and some Celtic men that belong to yDNA haplogroup E3a. You cannot attribute haplogroup belonging to cultures and it is erroneous to try to exchange the old racial theories with haplogroup affiliations. No matter how much you seem to try. The Scandinavian and Celtic guys with E3a are as Scandinavian and Celtic as the guys with the more frequent haplogroups in these geographical areas.

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Old 25th August 2006, 02:24 PM
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Stevo Stevo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wena
Stevo? Scandinavians does not all have the same forefather origin, and the same for the Celts. As you can see there are some Scandinavian and some Celtic men that belong to yDNA haplogroup E3a. You cannot attribute haplogroup belonging to cultures and it is erroneous to try to exchange the old racial theories with haplogroup affiliations. No matter how much you seem to try. The Scandinavian and Celtic guys with E3a are as Scandinavian and Celtic as the guys with the more frequent haplogroups in these geographical areas.

__________________________
I think any E3a among Scandinavians and "Celts" (whoever they are) is the result of something pretty recent. A man who is E3a may be Scandinavian or Celtic, but it isn't the E3a that makes him that. The E3a is among the non-Scandinavian, non-Celtic components of his genetic make-up. To think otherwise is to ignore history in favor of marching in lockstep with the commissars of political correctness.

It's not my project, and I am not trying to make the rules and/or exclude anybody.

One would think a project like the Nordic-Celtic Project was about tracing deep ancestry, not about being "inclusive" and "diverse" to the point of absurdity.

Last edited by Stevo; 25th August 2006 at 02:30 PM.
  #7  
Old 26th August 2006, 01:40 PM
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Stevo Stevo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wena
. . . it is erroneous to try to exchange the old racial theories with haplogroup affiliations. No matter how much you seem to try.
Excuse me, but when have I done that?

How much have I tried "to exchange the old racial theories with haplogroup affiliations"?

I can't remember ever doing that.

I prefaced my initial post with a warning about interpreting it in a pc way, but apparently you couldn't avoid doing it anyway.

It is a fact that E3a is a Sub-Saharan African y-haplogroup, "old racial theories" or no old racial theories.

I just wondered how it can be considered - in terms of deep ancestry - Scandinavian or Celtic.

I guess we are supposed to keep certain questions to ourselves.

Last edited by Stevo; 26th August 2006 at 01:42 PM.
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