The mtDNA motif – U5b1

Hi.

The results of the NGP showed that I have a genetic motif that most probably has its origin in the Saami area. Today the Saami people are inhabitants of northern and central Scandinavia, but earlier the geographical area was a larger area of the Scandinavian Peninsula and eastwards to the Onega and Ladoga Lakes in Karelia and possible as far south as today’s Latvia. The Saami specific motif and mutations are one of the few globally where genes can be connected/traced to a particular geographical location.

The Saami motif U5b1 is defined by the following mutations 16144, 16189 and 16270 and from what I have learned it is the most ancient or one of the oldest specific genetic motifs of the Saami people.

The spread of this genetic motif is not extensive, and mainly it is found in Scandinavia, in a few samples in Karelia, and a few other places in North Eastern Europe and I am sure that emigrants of a newer date have brought it to locations all over the world. There are matches at the Caucasus and in Armenia, then with an additional mutation.

[Noaide]

I am slightly in disagreement about your what you say

144, 189 and 270 + its variants is seen at low frequency in Europe, and at a very high frequency among the Saami (with Finns and Karelians as runner ups at 6%) however the 148 transition is ONLY seen among the Saami also at a high frequency.+ some very low occurences in neightboring populations (the Finns and the Karelians).

Source: Tambets 2004.

Noaide,
I agree that the Sami variant of the U5b1 (namely 16144C, 16189C, 16270T) or “The Saami Motif” occur at very low frequencies in neighbouring populations. The frequency of this particular motif is actually a lower in Finland than in Karelia. Only registered in Scandinavia and in north Eastern Europe by Richards et.al.(2000).

But there are other U5b1 motifs that lack or have additional mutations, most of these are found in other groups of people. Richards et.al.(2000) have found one U5b1 motif with an additional mutation in North Western Europe (16144, 16189, 16243, 16270), one in Armenia (16144, 16189, 16270, 16291), two different in North Eastern Europe (16144, 16189, 16270, 16301), the other one is (16144, 16189, 16209, 16270 ). Then they found one in Scandinavia that lacks one of the “Saami motif” mutations and is defined by 16144 and 16270.

Precise matches for the specific “the Sami motif” are only found in Scandinavia and in Eastern Europe. Remember that the original Saami area was much larger and southeastwards to Karelia and possible also Estonia.

The motif found by Tambets contains an additional mutation 16144, 16148, 16189 and 16270 and is called U5b1b1. This motif is estimated to be much younger than the one called “the Saami motif”.

“The second, containing an additional transition at np 16148, is so far exclusive to the Saami population. This subfounder comprises 38% of their U5b1b1 mtDNAs and is present in all studied subpopulations of the Saami.” Referred from Tambets et.al.(2004).

Here is what Tambets et.al. say about the Saami motif:
“More importantly, we have found that almost all of them exhibit coalescence ages around 11,000- 13,000 BP and only a few, like 'the Saami U5', seem to have started to expand significantly more recently. The 'Saami motif — 16,270; 16,189, 16,144 — (labelled as S in Fig. 35.1, but the figure is here drawn without Saami variants) is rare outside northeastern
Scandinavia: its topology in Scandinavia suggests recent severe bottleneck(s) in the demographic history of their carriers.” Referred from Tambets et.al.(2003).


To sum up the different relevant motifs and their time estimations:

U5: 16270 (Probably of European origin and an estimated age of 55.000-45.000 years BP).

U5b: 16189, 16270 (Richards et.al 2000 estimated the age to 22.900 – 13.100 years BP).

U5b1: 16144, 16189, 16279 called ”the Saami motif” with an estimated age of 12.400 ± 3500 years BP.

U5b1b: 16144, 16150(?), 16189, 16270 (mentioned by Achilli et.al.(2005). This motif have an estimated age of 8600 ± 2400 years BP and is found both in the Berbers, the Saami and the Yakuts.

U5b1b1: 16144, 16148, 16189, 16270 (Tambets et.al.2004 estimated the age of this motif to 4300 ±1400 years BP. This is a different motif than the ones reported by Richards et.al. (2000).

Hi Noaide, the U5b1b motif description over did not make much sense. I had to read the report from Achilli et.al.(2005) all over again.

It was a bit difficult to grasp which genetic markers were shared and which were not. Their findings were that Berber, Fulbe, Yakut and Saami people share HVR1 mutation 16270 that defines U5 and then a HVR2 mutation 150 that defines a control region. There is a similarity between the groups on the marker 309C, and there the similarities stop.

The shared and discrepant markers between the four groups of people is listed under:

U :.........3197, 9477, 13617, 16270 (all)
U5:........150, 7768, 14182 (all)
U5b:.......5656 (all)
U5b1:.....16189, 7385, 10927, 12618 (all)
U5b1b:...16144, 309C, 1850, 16148, 16335 (Saami)
U5b1b:...16144, 309C, 14927 (Yakut)
U5b1b:...309C, 16192, 8413, 16320 (Fulbe)
U5b1b:...309C, 16192, 152, 2387, 4345, 8839 (Berber)

The motif U5b1b is estimated to be 8600± 2400 years BP. As you see the Yakut and the Saami persons share 16144 and 309C, while the Berber and Fulbe shares the 309C with the Saami and Yakuts and the 16192 marker between themselves. I find it very interesting that the Yakuts also have European genes. Is this finding a coincidence, after all only one Yakut participated in the study? Or maybe it is an “Out of Europe” theory?

There are obviously different specific U5 motifs among the Saami, as there are differences in the genetic frequency distribution of the same motifs among different groups of Saami. The one included in this comparison contains the 16148 mutation mentioned by Tambets et.al.(2004).

U5 has seemingly had several migration paths northwards to the Saami areas, some U5b1 motifs from Iberia in accordance with the findings of Tambets et.al.(2004) and Achilli et.al.(2005) and some U5b1 motifs from the Caucasus and Near East areas where it is observed in present populations.

Maca-Meyer et.al. (2001) states that the U5 lineage entered Europe from the Middle East and Caucasus area. The high divergence of U5 in those areas supports their view.

This argument challenges the theory that U5 developed in Europe, but U5 may have developed very close to the Caucasus and the Near East and then the origin of U5 is disputable. Because back migration is possible this argument does not turn down the theory of U5 being of European origin and with reference to for instance the Berber population back migration is the most reasonable explanation.

About northward migration of U5:Bermisheva et.al.(2002) :

“Haplogroups U5 and U4 were the most common in the Volga–Ural region. The former is prevalent
(53.0%) in Saami and is also present in other North European populations. In our sample, haplogroup U5 was not only observed in the Finno-Ugric populations, it also occurred at a high frequency in Bashkirs, Tatars, and Chuvash. As Fig. 4 shows, haplogroup U5 had several founder types. One of these, so-called Saami motif (16,144–16,189–16,270) has earlier been detected in Saami (37%), Finns (2%), and the Karelian population (6%). We found this motif in Mari, Mordvinians, and Bashkirs.”

The frequencies of Haplogroup U5 are found to be:
Bashkirs: (30) 13.6
Tatars: (24) 10.5
Chuvash: (8) 14.5
Mordvinians: (16) 15.7
Komi-Permyaks: (4) 5.4
Komi-Zyryans: (6) 9.7
Mari: (19) 14.0
Udmurts: (9) 8.9

The motif U5b1 was found in three populations, but the text do not specify the mutations included in the U5b1 of the Mari, Mordovians and Bashkirs.

Maca-Meyer et.al found a Berber U5b1 motif (16189, 16192, 16270) that is an additional support of a genetic connection between these North African people and the Scandinavian Saami population. But unlike Achilli et.al.(2005) they argue that the connection are more likely via Caucasian connections rather than Iberian. This is because there are observed no U6 traces in Europe.

Referred from the article:

“Finally, U6 traces the first detectable Paleolithic return to Africa of ancient Caucasoid lineages. It has been mostly found in Northwest Africa, with a global estimated age of 47,000 years reflecting an old human continuity in that rather isolated area. The fact that in Europe it has only been detected in the Iberian Peninsula rules out a possible European route, unless a total lineage extinction in all the path is invoked. On the other hand, its presence in Northeast Africa [30], albeit in low frequencies, reinforces its way through North Africa. A third possibility could be that this lineage never went out of Africa but its coalescence with clades which all had prominent expansions in Eurasia weakens this option.”

I have developed a project that is open to both men and women of Nordic and of Celtic Iberian origins. This project is designed to show evidence of deep ancestral patterns found within Celtic Iberians and Scandinavian settlements throughout Europe.

If you follow the steps below - it shouldn't cost you anything.

How to Join the Nordic-Celtic Project

Current Family Tree DNA Customers: Go to your Family Tree DNA personal page and click on the blue icon labelled "Join." (This is next to your name and kit number, at the top of the page.) This will bring you to a page with the title "Group Join." Type "Nordic-Celtic" in the search engine and click to go to a page which will allow you to join the Nordic-Celtic Project.

Best Regards,
John

Website: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Nordic-Celtic

Thank you John, I will join your group. This group is not a surname group since it includes women. Therefore...

Can I use the oldest (from 1714) matriarchal surname known for my genetic U5b1 motif in your group?




John here is a correction to your results page that states:

“The Saami, reindeer hunters who follow the herds from Siberia to Scandinavia each season, also have U5 lineages in their population, indicating that these may have been introduced during their movements into these northern territories”


The Saami people do not follow their herds from Siberia to Scandinavia. This is incorrect, the reindeer herding Saami follow their herds within Scandinavia, Finland or at the Kola Peninsula in Russia.
There are other reindeer herding people in Siberia than the Saami, so this information has mixed the Saami with different cultural and genetic groups, such as the Nenets.

__________________________

[Eki]

Originally Posted by Wena

The Saami people do not follow their herds from Siberia to Scandinavia. This is incorrect, the reindeer herding Saami follow their herds within Scandinavia, Finland or at the Kola Peninsula in Russia.

Actually, I think the Saami today at least in Scandinavia and Finland have modern permanent houses, tend their herds on all terrain vehicles during the day and go home for the night.

[Native]

I disagree on that the Saami population earlier covered a larger part of the Scandinavian Peninsula, at least if we are talking about thousands of years back, but I know that this is a very controversial topic.

What we know for sure is that native Scandinavians lived along the entire coast of Norway as far North as the border between the two northernmost counties for thousands of years before the first Saami people settled there. The Saami people used to live much further East than today, in what is now Russia and Finland (not only Northern Finland), where they were later driven out by other expanding populations. During the Viking era there were already Saami people all over the area, but with a much bigger concentration in Northern Sweden and Finland than today. Many were later driven out of these two countries, and settled in Norway, particularly in the Northern part of Troms county.

As far as archeology goes, there are always fights among the different populations of Northern Norway as to which populations the remains belong to. It is mostly accepted though, that fixed settlements belong to the native Scandinavians, and that temporary settlements in the interior belong to Saami people. However, temporary settlements with Saami remains can often be found in areas far away from main Saami areas, and this is because of how nomadic people travel around. Such temporary settlements have not been dated further back than fixed settlements of native Scandinavians.

Genetics and genealogy can eventually help us put together all the pieces of the puzzle, although many Saami people are actually against this kind of science because it could rob them of their status as "indigenous people". I think it is really funny how many so-called indigenous populations are campaigning against the Genographic Project. If they have nothing to hide then they should actually embrace this project for proving their claims.

[Eki]

Originally Posted by Native

Genetics and genealogy can eventually help us put together all the pieces of the puzzle, although many Saami people are actually against this kind of science because it could rob them of their status as "indigenous people". I think it is really funny how many so-called indigenous populations are campaigning against the Genographic Project. If they have nothing to hide then they should actually embrace this project for proving their claims.

I agree. For me, it's not important who got where the first, I just want to know the truth about human history because I think it's interesting.