Go Back   Family Tree DNA Forums > General Interest > DNA and Genealogy for Beginners

DNA and Genealogy for Beginners Everything you wanted to know about DNA and Genealogy but didn't know where to ask. This board is open to customers and visitors.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12th February 2016, 06:04 PM
owen1218 owen1218 is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
Asia Minor?

I just got my results back this morning and most of the admixture results made sense based on my family tree:

93% European--
35% Western and Central European
29% British Isles
27% Scandinavian
2% Eastern Europe

This fits with my known French (Canadian)/Welsh/Danish background.

But I also received 7% Asia Minor, which does not fit anything I know, and also no Amerindian, which I would have expected to be found. Are these populations sometimes confused with one another?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13th February 2016, 01:58 AM
khazaria khazaria is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by owen1218 View Post
But I also received 7% Asia Minor, which does not fit anything I know, and also no Amerindian, which I would have expected to be found. Are these populations sometimes confused with one another?
A mixup between New World and Asia Minor doesn't happen often. Amerindian ancestry is sometimes partially misassigned by the current version of MyOrigins to the categories East Asian and occasionally Finland and Central Asia. This is supposed to be corrected next month.

On rare occasions, an Anatolian Turk from Asia Minor or a Finn from Finland will score 1 or 2 percentage points of "New World" in MyOrigins. Afshar explained how it happened to him at http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=37526 and I believe I saw another Turkish case like his on another forum, but it's not the norm because usually FTDNA categorizes the Turks' northeasternmost portion of their ancestry as "East Asia". Several Finns mused about their supposed "New World" ancestry in a Finnish-language forum.

You should check what your Amerindian and Siberian scores are in Eurogenes K36 at GEDmatch. Note that there are only a handful of other GEDmatch calculators that accurately reflect genuine Amerindian ancestry as some of the calculators give noise values that cannot be relied upon, plus scores under 1% or 2% are iffy in most cases and most calculators. MDLP World-22 is also worthwhile for this purpose.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13th February 2016, 10:08 AM
Armando Armando is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by owen1218 View Post
I just got my results back this morning and most of the admixture results made sense based on my family tree:

93% European--
35% Western and Central European
29% British Isles
27% Scandinavian
2% Eastern Europe

This fits with my known French (Canadian)/Welsh/Danish background.

But I also received 7% Asia Minor, which does not fit anything I know, and also no Amerindian, which I would have expected to be found. Are these populations sometimes confused with one another?
Asia Minor has been showing up in a lot of people with Germanic and/or British Isles ancestry but doesn't show up at all when they get a 23andme test which is more accurate than FTDNA for people with a very good genealogical paper trail.

How far back do most of your records go? Which is the most recent brick wall that you have?

If I were you, I would test with the other companies and also upload to Gedmatch.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15th February 2016, 12:52 AM
owen1218 owen1218 is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
I have six generations fully documented on my mother's (French Canadian) side, which is almost certainly where any non-European ancestors would be found. All were born in Canada. My mother and her siblings all have black hair and features similar to eastern Canada First Nations people, and there are both family histories of First Nations ancestry (despite embarrassment about this) and documented mixing (though beyond six generations).

On my father's side I am missing seven grandparents six generations back, but they almost certainly would have been Welsh or Danish.

I do have ancestry traced to the Near East it is extremely distant and unreliable, dating back to the 13th century.

I tested with Eurogenes K36 and my results were only wonkier. A minor trace was found for American Indian (0.90) and unexpected new ancestries cropped up including Italian (5.84) and Iberian (12.72). Basque (5.19) cropped up also, which is interesting because my grandmother claimed such ancestry though there is no documentation for it. I'm not sure what the equivalent for Asia Minor is on K36 but I received 0 for Near Eastern.

Given all this mess I think I will eventually retest with some of the other companies.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15th February 2016, 07:20 AM
Armando Armando is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,663
Owen, since you are not getting more than 2% Native American at Gedmatch then your ancestor's Native American DNA has been diluted so much that you don't have any in your DNA. On average autosomal DNA halves every generation. By 8 generations it is normally lost completely especially if the Native American ancestors at 8 generations were already mixed. It doesn't help that the northern North American Native DNA is a bit different from southern U.S. and Mexico. That's not to say there isn't an affinity, because there is and there are plenty of Canadian First Nation people that get very large amounts of Native American at 23andme and at Gedmatch.

I have never liked Eurogenes K36 for the very reason that is gives false amounts of Italian, Iberian, and Basque.

23andme is the best for identifying Italian and Iberian. Basque DNA can't be identified as a separate component in any ethnic calculator because the Basque share so much DNA with Iberians and French. When a person is 100% Basque they do plot in their own group in PCA graphs but there aren't enough AIMs to create a separate component.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15th February 2016, 09:36 AM
tfshortell tfshortell is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando View Post
Asia Minor has been showing up in a lot of people with Germanic and/or British Isles ancestry but doesn't show up at all when they get a 23andme test which is more accurate than FTDNA for people with a very good genealogical paper trail. ...

If I were you, I would test with the other companies and also upload to Gedmatch.

I am very new to genetic genealogy. After getting my FTDNA results this weekend, I have been reading about FTDNA's shortcomings in identifying German lineage. However, most of what I read indicates that German bloodlines have registered as either British Isles or Scandinavian. Can you tell me more about how Asia Minor has been showing up in a lot of people with Germanic and/or British Isles ancestry (or direct me to where I can read more about it)?

My own DNA results pretty closely matches my research into my family history except that it shows I am 11% Asia Minor (along with 74% British Isles and 16% Southern Europe). I know through various sources that I am one-eighth German, but that did not show up at all in my FTDNA results. I'd love to understand this better.

Thank you for your help.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th February 2016, 12:01 PM
BlackWolf BlackWolf is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 245
Personal, I think that Asia Minor in some cases can be Native American. When I phased with my daughter that Caucaus turned into Native American at approximate 5%. I get above 1% and above for Native American unphased on almost every calculator. I suggest MDLP K23B due to they have the most Native American samples. The problem continues to be that Northern Europeans have affiliation with Karitiana, and there are papers on that. However, when you get to minor admixture studies it does not show or places it in another category such as Asia Minor. 23andme is already very conservative, 0.2% Native American? No, I have documented Choctaw and Cherokee at soon as 3 generations on the Dawes rolls and Dawes Commissions in Oklahoma.

You can find that study here.

http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudie...rican-indians/

Last edited by BlackWolf; 15th February 2016 at 12:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15th February 2016, 01:05 PM
Armando Armando is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfshortell View Post
I am very new to genetic genealogy. After getting my FTDNA results this weekend, I have been reading about FTDNA's shortcomings in identifying German lineage. However, most of what I read indicates that German bloodlines have registered as either British Isles or Scandinavian. Can you tell me more about how Asia Minor has been showing up in a lot of people with Germanic and/or British Isles ancestry (or direct me to where I can read more about it)?

My own DNA results pretty closely matches my research into my family history except that it shows I am 11% Asia Minor (along with 74% British Isles and 16% Southern Europe). I know through various sources that I am one-eighth German, but that did not show up at all in my FTDNA results. I'd love to understand this better.

Thank you for your help.
As far as directing you to read more about it - it hasn't been talked about a lot because it isn't as common as the Germans being given more British Isles or Scandinavian or vice-versa. I've seen it in people with well documented ancestry back 6 generations, just like the OP, and also Dr. Ann Turner has mentioned seeing it also in a post in another forum. A few other people have posted about it here. A search of the forum should show the posts.

It has been showing up at rates of a few percent to 10 percent in them. If you look at your matches in myOrigins some of them most likely show it also at low amounts but if you look at their trees they don't have anyone in them that would cause this. You probably don't have matches that would be from a region you would expect Asia Minor to show up. One-eighth German isn't enough to be the cause of the 11% Asia Minor. So it's from a mix of all of your ancestry.

I have no idea why it happens with FTDNA myOrigins but not with the other companies or the Gedmatch. But the other companies, especially 23andme provide ethnicity results that are closer to known genealogies. All of the companies and calculators have different reference populations and different methodologies. FTDNA has the lowest number of reference populations and I don't think that the methodology is as good as the competition. Here is a link to the FTDNA methodology which also contains the reference populations - https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...s-methodology/

The last time I provided a link to the 23andme methodology the link was deleted so you'll have to do a search of 23andme Ancestry Composition Guide.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th February 2016, 02:22 PM
Armando Armando is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
Personal, I think that Asia Minor in some cases can be Native American.
That hasn't been shown to be a reproducible in people that have Native American DNA show up elsewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
When I phased with my daughter that Caucaus turned into Native American at approximate 5%.
Caucaus and Native American are two completely different populations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
I get above 1% and above for Native American unphased on almost every calculator.
You probably mean every Gedmatch calculator right. Your 23andme results didn't show it according to post #19 at http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=37047 and I don't think you ever mentioned having it show up in myOrigins.

You are the only person that I have seen with more than 3% Native American at Gedmatch but less than that at 23andme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
I suggest MDLP K23B due to they have the most Native American samples.
My Native American and that of everyone else that has a significant amount of NA, way over 2%, only has a difference of 2% between calculators, no matter which Gedmatch calculator is used, 23andme and AncestryDNA are also normally within 2-3% of each other. So a person with 20% at 23andme will have about 23% at AncestryDNA. FTDNA myOrigins is the only one that under reports for everyone by a large amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
The problem continues to be that Northern Europeans have affiliation with Karitiana, and there are papers on that.
That isn't the cause of Asia Minor showing up in people with mostly European ancestry and especially not the people born and raised in Europe with only European ancestry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
However, when you get to minor admixture studies it does not show or places it in another category such as Asia Minor.
There is no reproducible data out there that can correlate "missing" Native American DNA as being confused for Asia Minor in myOrigins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
23andme is already very conservative, 0.2% Native American? No, I have documented Choctaw and Cherokee at soon as 3 generations on the Dawes rolls and Dawes Commissions in Oklahoma.
That can't be used to correlate "missing" Native American DNA being confused for Asia Minor in myOrigins. You have so much European ancestry that if you are getting Asia Minor that is where it is from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWolf View Post
The ANE (Ancient North Eurasian), which the part of the study he cites is about, in Europeans is just that. When using MDLP K13 'Ultimate' the Native American is still at the same level as it is in other calculators and yet ANE is at 13.72.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15th February 2016, 03:14 PM
BlackWolf BlackWolf is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 245
No true, if DNA My Origins was "accurate" there would ne no reason to change, besides this fact, I am cousin to a Choctaw with 37% NA at Gedmatch.

I highly doubt Asia Minor ancestry, but being some of the Altalic ancestry is identical and found in Turks mixed with Near Eastern I can see the confusion in minority admixture being given another ancestry due to algorithms.

I also triangulate with Clovis Anzick with my daughter on unphased, her unphased, and the phased kit as well as the Choctaw person and a Native haplogroup C1b with a Grandmother. DNA, in regards to autosomal, is not perfect in regards to admixture.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help. Asia Minor DNA in Italians Anizio myOrigins Basics 61 13th April 2017 08:39 PM
5% Asia Minor? wilson myOrigins Basics 2 20th June 2015 10:17 PM
Can Asia Minor in myOrigins suggest Jewish ancestry? schnook myOrigins Basics 3 18th April 2015 06:26 PM
Central Asia? Miko myOrigins Basics 0 15th August 2014 04:29 PM
Trace or Minor Admixture percentages tlgarrison Family Finder Advanced Topics 5 31st July 2014 06:35 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 AM.


Family Tree DNA - World Headquarters

1445 North Loop West, Suite 820
Houston, Texas 77008, USA

Phone: (713) 868-1438 | Fax: (832) 201-7147
Copyright 2001-2010 Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.