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Y-DNA Haplogroups & SNPs Advanced Users can talk about SNP based tests such as single SNP testing by Sanger sequencing, Geno 2.0 chip based testing, and next-generation sequencing tests like BIG Y.

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  #11  
Old 5th March 2017, 07:41 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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Originally Posted by benowicz View Post
We will just have to agree to disagree.
If you agree with the scientific method and simple logic, then you have to admit that your theory amounts to speculation, at least until the point that Z209 is found in Goth remains from before the period that they entered Spain.
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  #12  
Old 5th March 2017, 08:15 PM
benowicz benowicz is offline
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Except for the map it is all speculation. That study he cited hasn't even been performed yet. So the Goths still are in the running. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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Old 6th March 2017, 06:47 AM
Armando Armando is offline
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Originally Posted by MMaddi View Post
If you agree with the scientific method and simple logic, then you have to admit that your theory amounts to speculation, at least until the point that Z209 is found in Goth remains from before the period that they entered Spain.
Even if Z209 were to be found in Goths it would not mean that is where Z209 originated.
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  #14  
Old 6th March 2017, 06:55 AM
Armando Armando is offline
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Originally Posted by benowicz View Post
Except for the map it is all speculation. That study he cited hasn't even been performed yet. So the Goths still are in the running. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The Goths are not in the running because they did not exist 4,400 years ago. This is a very simple concept that is being completely ignored. Something that did not exist until about 3,000 years ago can't be the source of an SNP that did not exist until 4,400 years ago and was widespread in Spain before the Goths. You would have to change history for you to be correct.
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  #15  
Old 6th March 2017, 09:20 AM
benowicz benowicz is offline
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For evidence of 4,400 years of age you submitted a study that hasn't been performed yet. So this point is also speculation.

I think my idea of mutual tolerance should be respected. If I tolerate someone, but they insist not to tolerate me that makes them look not so good.
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  #16  
Old 6th March 2017, 09:33 AM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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Originally Posted by benowicz View Post
For evidence of 4,400 years of age you submitted a study that hasn't been performed yet. So this point is also speculation.

I think my idea of mutual tolerance should be respected. If I tolerate someone, but they insist not to tolerate me that makes them look not so good.
We're not trying to give you a hard time. What we're saying is that you have put forward a proposition that a theory you have about Z209 and Goths is correct. But all you have to support your theory is your perception of a map of the modern distribution of Z209, suggesting to you that Z209 occurs in Spain due to the migration of Goths.

In order for us to accept your proposition, we're saying that you need some proof that Z209 was present among those Goths who came to Spain. This is why I am saying that you need some DNA results from ancient remains to prove your point. Armando is going farther by pointing out that Z209 is about 4,400 years old and that Goths have been around as a tribe for about 3,000 years, so it's impossible for Goths as a tribe to be the original source of Z209.

In other words, we're asking you to prove your theory with some physical evidence. That's what's known as the scientific method. Basically, the scientific method doesn't have a lot of tolerance for pure speculation. I hope that clarifies why we're disputing your proposition - it's nothing personal.
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