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  #41  
Old 25th September 2015, 12:58 AM
Beth Long Beth Long is offline
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One Romanian Roma Autosomal Result

We have a member of the Hungarian Bukovina project who I tested some years ago for Y-DNA. He lives in Romania, and his father's father was non-Roma (Hungarian). The other three grandparents were all Roma. For what it's worth, he showed the following:

29% Southern Europe
28% Eastern Europe
9% Central Asian
12% South Asian
11% Eastern Middle East
10% Asia Minor
1% New World

The New World piece is found among some of our other Transylvania Hungarians, as is Finland NE Asian in small amounts. I assume it comes from the Hungarian, rather than the Roma ancestors
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  #42  
Old 25th September 2015, 06:54 PM
Donald Locke Donald Locke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastara View Post
Haplogroups can identify deep ancestry, and H1a is no doubt connected to Roma. However, if you are not into the direct male line very little is left autosomally a few generation on to prove Roma connection through DNA testing.
I mentioned above one of the criteria is to match known Roma. British Roma are highly admixed with local Europeans and you can be connected to them through some other line.
For that reason I am looking for matching Balkan Roma as they are as "full blood" as they can get and of course, have no admixture with West Europeans.
I know at least one British Roma, who is matching some of the Balkan ones, try writing to boosroots on 23andMe.

@ eastara

Wow really? more "Full Blood"? You are exactly the reason many Romany refuse to DNA test, because they fear it will be used against them and not just by gadje but by their own people! You are not our judge and jury contrary to your biased belief. You have no right to judge who is more Rumney by looking at their admixture reports

A Rom is a Rom regardless of his or her admixture and I will give you a friendly piece of advice, such talk can only lead to tension, conflict and ill feelings. Please reframe from such talk because it is belittling and degrading to all Romany DNA participants, it serves no purpose other then to rile folks up, as if you are more Rumney then another because of your dinlo admixture report.

Brothers and sisters, let me say I am sorry by that kind of talk, it is boarding on the hateful side and hurtful side and I will not further this discussion because it serves but one purpose, to divide us not unite us.

End of this dinlo discussion, I see exactly where you are headed in this conversation and it will not end well because it serves zero purpose. No need to respond, I will not read it nor respond, waste of my time.
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  #43  
Old 26th September 2015, 03:02 AM
eastara eastara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Locke View Post
@ eastara

Wow really? more "Full Blood"? You are exactly the reason many Romany refuse to DNA test, because they fear it will be used against them and not just by gadje but by their own people! You are not our judge and jury contrary to your biased belief. You have no right to judge who is more Rumney by looking at their admixture reports

A Rom is a Rom regardless of his or her admixture and I will give you a friendly piece of advice, such talk can only lead to tension, conflict and ill feelings. Please reframe from such talk because it is belittling and degrading to all Romany DNA participants, it serves no purpose other then to rile folks up, as if you are more Rumney then another because of your dinlo admixture report.

Brothers and sisters, let me say I am sorry by that kind of talk, it is boarding on the hateful side and hurtful side and I will not further this discussion because it serves but one purpose, to divide us not unite us.

End of this dinlo discussion, I see exactly where you are headed in this conversation and it will not end well because it serves zero purpose. No need to respond, I will not read it nor respond, waste of my time.
Sorry if I have offended you, but the question was how to recognize Roma ancestry by DNA testing. Of course, everybody is free to identify by other means or self proclaim.
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  #44  
Old 10th March 2016, 11:44 AM
Donald Locke Donald Locke is offline
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@ Timothy and anyone else who maybe interested.
I have started to map the Colonial American Romanichal male lineages whom are proven to carry Y Haplogroup H1a - M82 with the DYS 425 = 0 null marker mutation. Obviously not all Rrom carry H1a - M82, but by mapping out the most distant paternal ancestor of those who do carry M82, shows a distinct concentration of male lineages carrying M82 from Colonial Virginia.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...Q.kUkhVD3kaR48

I then expanded that map to include all Rromany in
H1a - M82 with the 425 = 0 null mutation for a world map.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...Q.kicA_KR5sK5E
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  #45  
Old 18th May 2016, 10:02 PM
underwaterlily underwaterlily is offline
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I just stumbled across this thread. I have suspected Roma ancestry (in no small part because everyone in my family calls my grandmother a "gypsy"), and my Ancestry/FamilyTreeDNA results suggest there may be some truth to the family lore. Even so, I'm beginning to believe it's all a coincidence.

At Ancestry, I am 1% Asia South and < 1% Caucasus, while my mother is 2% Asia South, 1% Caucasus, and 1% Middle East. My FamilyTreeDNA results include 2% Asia Minor, while my mother's results include 3% Eastern Middle East and 3% Central Asia. Our haplogroup is H7a1a, listed in one Roma study, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25051224 . Despite this, as well as the presence of a Jeffrey line in my family tree (apparently another surname common in Romanichal families), my mother and I don't match any Roma. Our DNA results seem unlikely to be noise, but I no longer think our results point to Roma ancestry. Now, I wonder if some of my ancestors lived in colonial India. (Any thoughts are welcome!)

I was so sure of the Roma connection. I just want echo what everyone else has said about Roma matches being the only true indicator of Roma ancestry. South Asian admixture can indicate many things.
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  #46  
Old 19th May 2016, 06:29 AM
T E Peterman T E Peterman is offline
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When it comes to Family Finder matches from further back than say the last 5 or 6 generations, you will miss most of them. If the Roma admix occurred during colonial times on just one line of ancestry, I would be quite surprised if you found any Roma FF matches.

Timothy Peterman
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  #47  
Old 19th May 2016, 08:40 AM
KATM KATM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underwaterlily View Post
I have suspected Roma ancestry (in no small part because everyone in my family calls my grandmother a "gypsy")
From what you say, your grandmother is still living. It's advisable to test the eldest family members if possible, so it might be a good idea for you to have her do a Family Finder kit, if you can afford it (and she is open to doing it). Her percentages of whatever ethnicity will be larger, and may show something that your mother and you didn't inherit.
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  #48  
Old 19th May 2016, 07:55 PM
NCroots NCroots is offline
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On DNA.land I show 2.1% Indus Valley; could that represent Romani ancestry? For a long time I've been researching some of my wife's family with possible Romanichal origins (Lee, Gray, Taylor, Blythe, Smalls, living next to Stanleys). My son consistently shows about 2.19% South Asian on GEDmatch. I was surprised to see Indus Valley in my results, but when I began looking on FTDNA & 23andMe I found lots of Bailey DNA matches--and Short as well-- but I have no known Bailey ancestors (it is my understanding that Bailey and Short are Romani families in VA, NC, and SC. I'm also descended from a Carter family and that surname often appears with the other two). One of my distant cousins on Family Finder has the y-haplogroup H-M82. Initially, I thought the Indus Valley result was probably deeply ancestral Indo-European, but maybe it could be Romani?
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  #49  
Old 20th May 2016, 02:01 AM
loisrp loisrp is offline
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I think I do have matches with Romany people, based on a previous post. So how do I go about proving or disproving whether this is due to Romany ancestry or due to sharing non-Romany ancestry?
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  #50  
Old 20th May 2016, 05:25 PM
Donald Locke Donald Locke is offline
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@ Timothy, agreed most people will not match the Colonial Romany due to DNA recombination.
I have a 6th cousin of the Locke surname FF tested and
Y DNA tested, he and I are NOT an autosomal match, yet we are a 65/67 Y DNA match. Had we exclusively relied on the FF test, we would not have found one another because we do not share enough autosomal DNA to be a match.

So even though he and I shared the same paternal Lock ancestor, our distant kinship to each other caused us to not be an FF match. We already knew we were related through the paper records research, but it took Y DNA testing to reconfirm that paper trail connection by being a Y DNA match.

@ NCROOTS
One of the reasons I shared the map for the Colonial American H1a - M82 male lineages, is to help participants like yourself find potential clues.

The Bailey's of Virginia and Laurens County SC are clearly of Scottish Romany ancestry which is documented in the Scottish convict records. The Laurens County SC Bailey's appear to have migrated through the Southern States and have ties to multiple Southern States along the coast.
Having FF matches to H1a - M82 Bailey participants tells me you need to keep researching the paper trail, that connection is likely there, you just haven't found it yet.

The one Mr. Short in the project, he claims his is a case of NPE, that it is of his belief that Bailey is the biological surname, Short is not the biological connection and to back up his own claim, he had 2 other cousins of the Short surname Y DNA tested, confirming he is not a Y DNA match to his Short Y DNA lineage.

Yes Short is a known surname in the Romanichal tree, but in this one case it appears this Short is likely a Bailey.

The one Carter surname in the project, his is a very different case, he is a case of Romany / African slave admixture, that he traces his Carter paternal tree back to the Virginia slave plantations.

Unknown to us if his Romany ancestor was a slave owner, or a slave himself, that remains unproven at this time. All we do know about Carter is that he is admittedly a slave descendant.
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