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  #1  
Old 7th August 2006, 06:34 PM
Jambalaia32 Jambalaia32 is offline
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Is U5 Anglo and K Saxon?

Many nations have more than one haplogroup dwelling in their land,usually groups associated with them. So my question is are there other haplogroups affiliated with Germany besides MtK? Of course I think there are, but no one comes out and says so. For instance I noticed that many people in FamilyTree's German Group have the DNA haplogroup MtU. MtU5 is most common in the Sweden and Scandanavian regions-so I'm thinking maybe they are the Angles of old Angle-Saxon lore.Maybe MtK are the Saxons.
Now what if MtK isn't from Germany? Where are they from then? I know they don't all live there now,but they do live in other lands occupied by Europeans like Australia.
I'll simplify.The head of FamilyT. told me that MtK is from the German/Austria area.But I don't see any evidence of that-of course MtK is a very reticent bunch and they don't say where they came from or where they are now,and how. Are the U's I see in Germany some of the Germanic peoples that are similar to MtK or are they foreigners that live in Germany??
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  #2  
Old 7th August 2006, 11:15 PM
Bill Hurst Bill Hurst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jambalaia32
Many nations have more than one haplogroup dwelling in their land,usually groups associated with them. So my question is are there other haplogroups affiliated with Germany besides MtK? Of course I think there are, but no one comes out and says so. For instance I noticed that many people in FamilyTree's German Group have the DNA haplogroup MtU. MtU5 is most common in the Sweden and Scandanavian regions-so I'm thinking maybe they are the Angles of old Angle-Saxon lore.Maybe MtK are the Saxons.
Now what if MtK isn't from Germany? Where are they from then? I know they don't all live there now,but they do live in other lands occupied by Europeans like Australia.
I'll simplify.The head of FamilyT. told me that MtK is from the German/Austria area.But I don't see any evidence of that-of course MtK is a very reticent bunch and they don't say where they came from or where they are now,and how. Are the U's I see in Germany some of the Germanic peoples that are similar to MtK or are they foreigners that live in Germany??
Me, I'm from TN and live in VA. Seriously, if you look at the map on the K Project website you will see the top three countries listed for ancestors' European origins are the United Kingdom, Germany, and Belarus. There is no way you generalize K's as Saxon. See below the chart under the mtDNA Results tab at http://www.familytreedna.com/mtDNA_K/

Bill Hurst
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  #3  
Old 8th August 2006, 03:28 AM
Jambalaia32 Jambalaia32 is offline
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Who are U's to Us? Angles to our Saxons?

Well, you know anciently the Angles and Saxons hung out together,and so did the Jutes from Denmark.Like,they all floated over to Britain from N.Germany in 400AD,and like ,I saw lots of Mt U's on the German Maternal Page and I just wondered were they the Angles from Sweden.Are they some of the corresponding people of Germany or are they a bunch of unrelated folks that dwell there? That's what I'm trying to figure out.Are they the Angles and we're the Saxons? Remember this is ancestral,not that I actually call Swedes Angles,but hey,you could if they are.
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  #4  
Old 8th August 2006, 02:30 PM
Eki Eki is offline
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The 5000 year old mummy they found in the Alps between Austria and Italy was of mtHg K:

http://www.isogg.org/ancientdna.htm
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  #5  
Old 14th August 2006, 11:54 AM
Jambalaia32 Jambalaia32 is offline
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Thumbs up Great Site

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
The 5000 year old mummy they found in the Alps between Austria and Italy was of mtHg K:

http://www.isogg.org/ancientdna.htm
Thanks.I've seen this site before but it's good to be kept up to date.As for the iceman,I had heard of him before I knew I was in his haplogroup.But I can't believe they didn't know MtHg K existed until Oetzi was discovered.Any tests of regular people would reveal a K someplace, I'm sure.
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Old 14th August 2006, 12:56 PM
Bill Hurst Bill Hurst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
The 5000 year old mummy they found in the Alps between Austria and Italy was of mtHg K:

http://www.isogg.org/ancientdna.htm
A few years ago I calculated that Oetzi was my 500th cousin, 250 times removed.

Bill Hurst
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  #7  
Old 22nd April 2007, 01:52 AM
johnraciti
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I have to agree: U5 = Anglo/Danish - Saxon/Nth German

I have to agree: U5 = Anglo/Danish - Saxon/Nth German

I'm a U5 and R1b European from Italy, Sicily:

Invasion and conquest of Italy in 560 AD: Lombards, Bavarians, Gepidae, Saxons...

History:

Invasion and conquest of Italy in 560 AD:

In the spring of 568, Alboin led the Lombards, together with other Germanic tribes; (Bavarians, Gepidae, Saxons) and Bulgars, across the Julian Alps with a population of around 400,000 to 500,000, to invade northern Italy. The first important city to fall was Forum Iulii (Cividale del Friuli), in northeastern Italy, in 569. There, Alboin created the first Lombard duchy, which he entrusted to his nephew Gisulf. Soon Vicenza, Verona, and Brescia fell into Germanic hands. In the summer of 569, the Lombards conquered the main Roman centre of northern Italy, Milan. The area was then recovering from the terrible Gothic Wars, and the small Byzantine army left for its defence could do almost nothing. The Exarch sent to Italy by Emperor Justinian II, Longinus, could defend only coastal cities that could be supplied by the powerful Byzantine fleet. Pavia fell after a siege of three years, in 572, becoming the first capital city of the new Lombard kingdom of Italy. In the following years, the Lombards penetrated further south, conquering Tuscany and establishing two duchies, Spoleto and Benevento under Zotto, which soon became semi-independent and even outlasted the northern kingdom, surviving well into the 12th century. The Byzantines managed to retain control of the area of Ravenna and Rome, linked by a thin corridor running through Perugia.

This is probably why there are many R1b1c/R1b1c9a?s in Italy that also went through to Sicily much later in the 11th century.

This also could be why - there are many exact matches in the UK and among many R1b1c Italians - we are all related closely to the Saxons of the Middle Ages. We were at some point (about 100 BC) - Northern Germanic clansmen.

Italy, 962?1300 > Italy under the Saxon emperors

Saxons in Italy:

Second half of the 10th century, Italy began a slow recovery from the turmoils of late Carolingian Europe. During the previous century the Po River valley had been exposed to Magyar raiders. Sardinia, Corsica, and Sicily had fallen to the Muslims; even Rome had felt their threat. In the north the Lombard kingdom was little more than a collection of great lordships vying with one another for the Carolingian inheritance. In the south the peninsula was shared by the remnants of the Byzantine and Lombard states and by local powers. The 10th-century papacy had fallen into the hands of various Roman aristocratic factions. But already there were signs of revival. Genoa, Pisa, and Venice were joining other cities in developing local and international trade. In Germany the last of the East Frankish Carolingians had died, and in 911 Conrad I of Franconia became king, to be succeeded in 919 by the energetic Henry the Fowler, duke of Saxony and founder of the Saxon dynasty of German emperors. In France the Carolingians yielded to the Capetians before the century was out. In the monasteries of Burgundy and Lorraine a new spirit of religious reform arose, which reached outward to the whole of Latin Europe and soon influenced the rich monastic traditions of Italy.

The ancient Anglo-Saxons from Germany - populated Italy and UK - hence we have exact matches from Italy and UK (R1b1c/R1b1c9a).
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  #8  
Old 22nd April 2007, 01:23 PM
Jambalaia32 Jambalaia32 is offline
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Whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hurst
Me, I'm from TN and live in VA. Seriously, if you look at the map on the K Project website you will see the top three countries listed for ancestors' European origins are the United Kingdom, Germany, and Belarus. There is no way you generalize K's as Saxon. See below the chart under the mtDNA Results tab at http://www.familytreedna.com/mtDNA_K/

Bill Hurst
God, you're vague Bill.I mean c'mon Mt K doesn't hail from TN .That's where you migrated to after hundreds of years,but originally people Of Europe were called Angles,Saxons,and Jutes...up in the North and many other tribes of Europe exist too,but they all require study to name and detail. And except for this DNA ,they weren't exactly named or studied.
I'm not being extremely picky ,I just wondered if they (scientists and researchers ,amateur or professional) knew which modern day people were some of the ancient day tribes.
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  #9  
Old 22nd April 2007, 01:27 PM
Jambalaia32 Jambalaia32 is offline
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U5

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnraciti
I have to agree: U5 = Anglo/Danish - Saxon/Nth German

I'm a U5 and R1b European from Italy, Sicily:

Invasion and conquest of Italy in 560 AD: Lombards, Bavarians, Gepidae, Saxons...

History:

Invasion and conquest of Italy in 560 AD:

In the spring of 568, Alboin led the Lombards, together with other Germanic tribes; (Bavarians, Gepidae, Saxons) and Bulgars, across the Julian Alps with a population of around 400,000 to 500,000, to invade northern Italy. The first important city to fall was Forum Iulii (Cividale del Friuli), in northeastern Italy, in 569. There, Alboin created the first Lombard duchy, which he entrusted to his nephew Gisulf. Soon Vicenza, Verona, and Brescia fell into Germanic hands. In the summer of 569, the Lombards conquered the main Roman centre of northern Italy, Milan. The area was then recovering from the terrible Gothic Wars, and the small Byzantine army left for its defence could do almost nothing. The Exarch sent to Italy by Emperor Justinian II, Longinus, could defend only coastal cities that could be supplied by the powerful Byzantine fleet. Pavia fell after a siege of three years, in 572, becoming the first capital city of the new Lombard kingdom of Italy. In the following years, the Lombards penetrated further south, conquering Tuscany and establishing two duchies, Spoleto and Benevento under Zotto, which soon became semi-independent and even outlasted the northern kingdom, surviving well into the 12th century. The Byzantines managed to retain control of the area of Ravenna and Rome, linked by a thin corridor running through Perugia.

This is probably why there are many R1b1c/R1b1c9a?s in Italy that also went through to Sicily much later in the 11th century.

This also could be why - there are many exact matches in the UK and among many R1b1c Italians - we are all related closely to the Saxons of the Middle Ages. We were at some point (about 100 BC) - Northern Germanic clansmen.

Italy, 962?1300 > Italy under the Saxon emperors

Saxons in Italy:

Second half of the 10th century, Italy began a slow recovery from the turmoils of late Carolingian Europe. During the previous century the Po River valley had been exposed to Magyar raiders. Sardinia, Corsica, and Sicily had fallen to the Muslims; even Rome had felt their threat. In the north the Lombard kingdom was little more than a collection of great lordships vying with one another for the Carolingian inheritance. In the south the peninsula was shared by the remnants of the Byzantine and Lombard states and by local powers. The 10th-century papacy had fallen into the hands of various Roman aristocratic factions. But already there were signs of revival. Genoa, Pisa, and Venice were joining other cities in developing local and international trade. In Germany the last of the East Frankish Carolingians had died, and in 911 Conrad I of Franconia became king, to be succeeded in 919 by the energetic Henry the Fowler, duke of Saxony and founder of the Saxon dynasty of German emperors. In France the Carolingians yielded to the Capetians before the century was out. In the monasteries of Burgundy and Lorraine a new spirit of religious reform arose, which reached outward to the whole of Latin Europe and soon influenced the rich monastic traditions of Italy.

The ancient Anglo-Saxons from Germany - populated Italy and UK - hence we have exact matches from Italy and UK (R1b1c/R1b1c9a).
Isn't U5 SWEDISH? Are you more Scandanavian than Italian ? Just wondering. Or how much Italian are you ? Did you get an autosomal test? I did. gotta explain that later.
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  #10  
Old 22nd April 2007, 01:45 PM
Jambalaia32 Jambalaia32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hurst
A few years ago I calculated that Oetzi was my 500th cousin, 250 times removed.

Bill Hurst
What about current Mt K matches? Are they any more recently related to you? Or who is closely related to you today? I wanna know some recent family! Who's you're most recent Cousin??
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