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  #1  
Old 12th November 2015, 11:55 AM
curious1 curious1 is offline
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Anglo-Saxon (Germanic) Y-DNA Project

I found a thread called the Anglo-Saxon (Germanic) Y-DNA Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...xonydnaproject

The requirements to join this project are quite stringent:

This project was created to find a common ancestor among those who have surnames of an Anglo Saxon origin or those who live or have ancestry in the lands once occupied by the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians andFranks.

I will accept only those people that have tested with a SNP associated with Germanic origins
.

The project admin was nice enough to let me join the project; I supplied him with my haplogroups (R-M269, H11a, and WAMH) and a brief family history of some ancestors being from Holland. Their family name was originally Mensink, Americanized to Mensing, and mentioned that I remembered really only one name from a genealogy that an uncle did: von Voelkker from the 17th Century. I mention this frequently as the "von" is German, "van" is Dutch, and the double k's in Voelkker is distinctly Dutch. The name seems to be an anomaly of sorts.

Anyhow, I always thought that Anglo-Saxon was Atlantic coast European: the British islands, France and the rest. Inland Germany was more Vandals and the assorted Goths and all. From the admin:

The Saxons were a Germanic people first appeared in the beginning of the Christian era.

The Saxons were said to have lived in the south Jutland Peninsula in the north of what is now modern day Germany.


I've yet to take the extra SNP tests that the R1b projects offer, so my membership may be terminated if they don't match the ones defining direct Germanic ancestry. But inland Europe haplogroups, weren't there a lot of I and G haplogroups, along with R1a?

Interesting project, nonetheless.
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Old 31st December 2015, 06:03 PM
curious1 curious1 is offline
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R-Z2573

Got my M343 backbone test back and now I'm haplogroup R-Z2573. Cut-and-paste:

Haplogroup R-P312 is the descendant of the major R-P25 (aka R-M343) lineage and is the most common in Central Europe, Spain, France, Portugal, and the British Isles

I don't know if this lineage is in keeping with what this project's goals are. Definite Anglo-Saxon geography, but Germanic origins might be missing. Anyway, this is where I am for the present until science makes new discoveries.
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Old 31st December 2015, 06:40 PM
lgmayka lgmayka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious1 View Post
Got my M343 backbone test back and now I'm haplogroup R-Z2573.
According to YFull, Z2573 is (directly) downstream from DF27. I would not call that specifically Anglo-Saxon.
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Old 1st January 2016, 07:45 PM
curious1 curious1 is offline
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A Could-Be

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
According to YFull, Z2573 is (directly) downstream from DF27. I would not call that specifically Anglo-Saxon.
I asked this on another forum and got this as a response. Gonna fly with it for now:


DF27 is Celtic / Proto-Celtic. P305 > M42 > M168 > P143 > M89 > M578 > P128 > M526 > M45 > M207 > P231 > M343 > M269 > L150 > L23 > L51 > L151 aka P310 > P311 > P312 (men were Proto-Celtic, Indo-European, nomadic herders from steppes of Russia and Ukraine north of Black Sea and, after reaching Europe 2300-1800 BCE [aka BC], spread west from the Western Rhine River Basin [not the Eastern Rhine River Basin as the R-P310 >R-U106 (aka S21) branch] > DF27 (man with mutation likely born near French-Spanish border c. 4,000 years ago/c. 1700 BCE) > ZZ12_1 (i.e., DF27+, Z195-) > L881 (perhaps occurred in France/Spain/Portugal; my speculation only) >thirty-three not-as-yet-ordered mutations . >A7385 (perhaps occurred England, even in Lancashire; my speculation only) > other later mutations .. present day. The direct ancestors of R-DF27 moved through German areas but were not the Anglo-Saxons of later years. This is my understanding.


Now, the project in question is seeking those who are of Germanic origins, though they live in Anglo-Saxon geographic regions. Those regions had many travelers throughout the ages, and obviously blood lines became mixed. You'll see the reader who responded to me stated that "...direct ancestors of R-DF27 moved through German areas but were not the Anglo-Saxons of later years." If a project (FTDNA or any other) can fine tune this science good enough to pick through this, that's great. Personally I think a Germanic origins Anglo-Saxon project is sort of audacious to begin with, but the science is getting better so there's probably a chance of it bearing fruit.

No comment on why I'd post a thread like this in a Scandinavian forum?
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Old 2nd January 2016, 03:55 AM
dna dna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious1 View Post
[----] No comment on why I'd post a thread like this in a Scandinavian forum?
Jutland is part of Scandinavia. Modern Danes come from Jutes mixed with ancient Danes.

Mr W
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  #6  
Old 3rd January 2016, 04:20 PM
curious1 curious1 is offline
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Found This

Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post
Jutland is part of Scandinavia. Modern Danes come from Jutes mixed with ancient Danes.

Mr W
Another answer I got:

The Angles, Saxons, Jutes and other Germanic tribes are largely Y-DNA haplogroup I1. [ IJ (38,000 years ago) > I (25,000 years ago in Balkans) > pre-I1 (20,000 years ago) > I1 (5,000 years ago in Scandinavia) > I1a (2,000 years ago) ..). See website, http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...A.shtml#nordic . Haplogroup I1 through the migrations of people with that haplogroup became first Nordic and then Germanic. I1 is a major haplogroup for both Germanic and Norse-Viking invaders of the British Isles. The haplogroup, I1-M253 et al, is the indicator of such Anglo-Saxon and Norse-Viking invaders. The haplogroup, R-DF27, and its sub-clades, are Celtic/Proto-Celtic, not Anglo-Saxon. This is my understanding which contradicts the conclusions from my long ago North American school days that there were no Celts in Post-Roman England, only victorious Anglo-Saxons and later victorious French-Normans (except for the Celtic Welsh).

That's interesting. I'd figured haplogroup I was Viking, but didn't know it was also Anglo-Saxon to that extent.

"Proto-Celtic."
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