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  #1  
Old 4th February 2018, 01:52 PM
Gabriel Prola Gabriel Prola is offline
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Many doubts from a begginer... (Mediterranean origins)

Hi, everyone! Maybe someone could help me...
I'm very interested in genealogy and I have been researching my own for more than 10 years. However, I know very few about genetics and stuff. I ordered a DNA test at Family Tree DNA for my aunt, and now some of the results are intriguing me.
She is an "average" southern Brazilian, with Portuguese blood as well as other European origins like German and French. The German and French known origins were perfectly confirmed in the test, corresponding to her 50% of "West and Central Europe" cluster. However, the other 50%, which I thought were only "Portuguese" (maybe with a trace of "Dutch/Flemish", as the first settlers of Azores), appeared more diversified in the test: 30% Iberian, 4% North Africa and, surprisingly, 16% from Southern Europe.
I started to make some considerations. I would like to know if I'm right or wrong...
1) First of all, what is the real significance of being an Iberian? If the modern Iberian people (Portuguese and Spanish) are a mixture of Celts, Phoenicians, Germans, Moors and so on, why "Iberians" aren't merely "Southern Europeans" too, like Italy and Greece? In other words, if Iberians are so diverse, why they figure as one of the ethnic clusters of the DNA tests?

2) Related to this... how many centuries the results can trace back? I mean, what does exactly mean the clusters from MyOrigins? It indicates, for instance, that these are the regions where our ancestors were xxxxxx centuries ago?

3) The 4% of North Africa indicates the Moor presence in the Iberian Peninsula until the 1400's, right? So, if Brazil was colonised from the 1500's, every Portuguese descendant should have more or less the same 4% of Moor blood, right?

4) Here the most important question: I'm absolutely sure that my aunt doesn't have any Italian or Greek ancestor for at least the last 300 years. So, the considerably high amount of "Southern European" on her test (16%) could indicate the Ancient Roman presence over the Iberian Peninsula? I've read that modern Iberians have very few of greek and italic origins, so I found it strange...

Thanks a lot! God bless you
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  #2  
Old 2nd March 2018, 07:31 PM
Gabriel Prola Gabriel Prola is offline
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Help

Someone could help me with this??
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  #3  
Old 3rd March 2018, 06:22 PM
Rakkaus Rakkaus is offline
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Seems lot of people encounter surprises when dealing with Southern European ancestry on MyOrigins, and a lot of questions about Iberian vs. Italian vs. Greek DNA....

I have somewhat reversed situation where what I thought was ostensibly Italian/Sicilian ancestry, but over half my Southern Euro DNA is Iberian origin instead.

MyOrigins found 30% Southeast Europe...and over 30% Iberian (19-21% Iberian, 10-13% Sephardic Iberian).

In original MyOrigins, all of "Southern Europe" was one category covering Iberia, Italy, Greece.

Since 2017 new MyOrigins 2.0 split up Iberia from South Europe, it seems a few people who thought they were only one or the other are getting significant % amounts of both.

Maybe Iberian DNA is not as distinct from other Southern Euro DNA as some believe, which is why Italians are getting some Iberian DNA and Iberians getting some Italian DNA.

Of course that theory just based on very small sample of posters here who report such surprises, people who get what they expected aren't going to make threads about their results.


Are you sure there is no possibility of an Italian ancestor? You say "average southern Brazilian"...

...an average southern Brazilian has Italian ancestry, more Italians live in São Paulo than in any other city in the world (including Italy).

My Italian-Brazilian great-grandmother was born & lived in Ipiranga, São Paulo, Brazil before emigrating, leaving behind lot of Italian-Brazilian cousins in south Brazil today.

Brazil is home to more people of Italian ancestry than any other country outside Italy.

Estimate over 32 million Brazilians have Italian ancestry, more than Argentina 25 million & United States 18 million, with vast majority in São Paulo and southern Brazil.

That whole region of South America is extremely heavily Italian; from São Paulo, southern Brazil down through Uruguay down through Buenos Aires, Argentina into Chile... live more people of Italian ancestry than live Italians in all of Italy.

Having ZERO Italian ancestry would be atypical/non-average for a southern Brazilian.




Have you/your aunt taken other DNA tests like 23&Me and/or AncestryDNA?

Or gotten any second opinions from other DNA analysis sites?

You can get quick free alternate ethnic report interpretations from the same FTDNA sample by downloading your raw data file and uploading it to:

1) DNA.Land
2) MyHeritage
3) Gencove
3) GEDMatch
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  #4  
Old 14th March 2018, 10:32 PM
Gabriel Prola Gabriel Prola is offline
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Thank you so much for your comprehensive answer and attention! I understood perfectly your explanation about the complexity of mediterranean origins. I didn't know that Iberia, Italy and Greece once figured as one cluster alone. That explains many things. One thing I'm learning from all of this is that this division of the ethnic clusters are considerably random. Iberia shouldn't figure as a cluster, as if it was a static genetic region. Instead, Iberia is mixing point for Romans, Greeks, Germans, Moors, Celts, Phenicians and so on...
I'am well aware of the fact that Southern Brazil is full of Italian descendants. I am an example, from my paternal lineage. But this aunt in question is from my maternal lineage, which I researched her family tree until the European migration in every branch, until close to the 1700's, so I'm pretty sure that she does not have any Italian ancestor. That's why I'm wondering if her 16% Italian/Greek could indicate the Roman influence over Portugal.
Thanks a lot!
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  #5  
Old 15th March 2018, 09:31 AM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Prola View Post
Thank you so much for your comprehensive answer and attention! I understood perfectly your explanation about the complexity of mediterranean origins. I didn't know that Iberia, Italy and Greece once figured as one cluster alone. That explains many things. One thing I'm learning from all of this is that this division of the ethnic clusters are considerably random. Iberia shouldn't figure as a cluster, as if it was a static genetic region. Instead, Iberia is mixing point for Romans, Greeks, Germans, Moors, Celts, Phenicians and so on...
I'am well aware of the fact that Southern Brazil is full of Italian descendants. I am an example, from my paternal lineage. But this aunt in question is from my maternal lineage, which I researched her family tree until the European migration in every branch, until close to the 1700's, so I'm pretty sure that she does not have any Italian ancestor. That's why I'm wondering if her 16% Italian/Greek could indicate the Roman influence over Portugal.
Thanks a lot!
A lesser possibility might be Sephardic ancestry. This would not show up at MO, , but would be present at Dna Land, My Heritage or Gedmatch (MO covers east Med Sephardic lines)
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  #6  
Old 15th March 2018, 09:50 AM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
A lesser possibility might be Sephardic ancestry. This would not show up at MO, , but would be present at Dna Land, My Heritage or Gedmatch (MO covers east Med Sephardic lines)
By the way, Brazil was founded by Admiral Cabral, probably a converso.
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  #7  
Old 15th March 2018, 12:30 PM
AFH AFH is offline
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Portuguese results vary here is mine and my wife's we are from the Azores Islands. There are numerous different groups that settled in Portugal just in the last 3,000 years but I really think myOrigins is missing a lot of the Iberian in some cases and estimating it as West & Central Europe, British Isles and Southeast Europe.
Attached Images
File Type: png MyOrigins 1.PNG (78.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: png My Origins 2.PNG (78.4 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by AFH; 15th March 2018 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Additional information
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  #8  
Old 24th March 2018, 08:29 PM
PhillipHemphill PhillipHemphill is offline
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According to all the DNA tests I took, I am mostly Northwestern European descent, with smaller amounts of Eastern European and Southern European.

My Southern European ancestry is still a mystery to me.

AncestryDNA results: 18% Iberian
23andme results: 5.2% Southern European, 4.5% Broadly, <0.1 Iberian and 0.7% Balkan
MyHeritage: 10.2% Italian

I'm hoping that FTDNA is able to give me more information on what my actual southern euro ancestry is, because all these tests so far give me conflicting results. It's so frustrating. I also have Hungarian ancestry, and mainly Southern German, this could be what's giving me me southern euro results on the tests, but I doubt it.
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  #9  
Old 25th March 2018, 02:55 PM
Gabriel Prola Gabriel Prola is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkaus View Post

Have you/your aunt taken other DNA tests like 23&Me and/or AncestryDNA?

Or gotten any second opinions from other DNA analysis sites?

You can get quick free alternate ethnic report interpretations from the same FTDNA sample by downloading your raw data file and uploading it to:

1) DNA.Land
2) MyHeritage
3) Gencove
3) GEDMatch
Hey, my friend, I'm very unskilled in informatics. Could you explain me better how to upload my aunt's results to these other sites?
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  #10  
Old 25th March 2018, 08:04 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Prola View Post
Hey, my friend, I'm very unskilled in informatics. Could you explain me better how to upload my aunt's results to these other sites?
There should be instructions at the sites. Download your data from MO. Then upload the data on your computer to the new site.

There were many conversos in the Azores They would not be identified as Sephardic in MO.
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