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  #11  
Old 15th October 2017, 08:51 PM
The_Contemplator The_Contemplator is offline
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Correct. The YDNA data from 23andMe is very limited. So having Gedmatch try to mess with YDNA seems counterproductive to me as both companies do not compare at all. YSearch was made by FTDNA but they no longer maintain it. Best option is a proper YDNA test over at FTDNA where you will find the bulk of the data is already at for YDNA.

A Gedmatch version for YDNA would only make sense if there were other DNA companies doing YDNA like FTDNA the way multiple companies do autosomal DNA testing.
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  #12  
Old 15th October 2017, 10:48 PM
prairielad prairielad is offline
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I think many faIL to fully comprehend that haplogroup matching does not indicate a common ancestor genealogicaly. MoSt of the haplogroups people have listed are very basic haplogroups that are thousands of years old. One would have to do a tests that refine haplogroup into furthest known subclade branch for it to apply genealogicaly(like big Y). Most autosmal testing companies do not even come close with the ydna snps they test.
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  #13  
Old 16th October 2017, 11:42 AM
Oldcrone Oldcrone is offline
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[QUOTE=Germanica;444491]I'm not sure it would be possible to compare Y matches between 23andMe and FTDNA. For starters, 23andMe's test only includes SNPs for the Y chromosome. FTDNA's 37-111 Y marker tests only include STRs, not SNPs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that SNPs and STRs are not comparable.

Thank you so much, Germanica, for clarifying that for me. I had no idea what type of test 23 and me did for Y - only that this person had it done. So at least now I don't feel so bad at not being able to make that comparison.
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  #14  
Old 16th October 2017, 12:45 PM
Germanica Germanica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Contemplator View Post
Correct. The YDNA data from 23andMe is very limited. So having Gedmatch try to mess with YDNA seems counterproductive to me as both companies do not compare at all. YSearch was made by FTDNA but they no longer maintain it. Best option is a proper YDNA test over at FTDNA where you will find the bulk of the data is already at for YDNA.

A Gedmatch version for YDNA would only make sense if there were other DNA companies doing YDNA like FTDNA the way multiple companies do autosomal DNA testing.
To be fair, there are other companies that provide proper Y-DNA tests:

https://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_SNP_testing_chart
https://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_STR_tes...mparison_chart

Y-SNP:
Geno 2.0 (National Geographic) - includes around 20,000 SNPs
Full Genomes Corporation Y Elite - 53,350 SNPs
LivingDNA - 22,500 SNPs
YSEQ - about 50,000 SNPs
These would probably be comparable with FTDNA's Big Y test (41,800 SNPs).

Y-STR:
Genebase - options for 20, 44, and 101 STR markers
Oxford Ancestors - 26 STRs
YSEQ - 14, 16, 36, 37, and 50 STRs
Most of these would probably be comparable with FTDNA's 37, 67, and 111 STR tests.

My understanding is that Y SNPs aren't useful for recent genealogy though - it's the STRs which can be. Geno 2.0 and LivingDNA are probably the most popular ones after FTDNA, but they are both SNP tests, which means finding matches with them isn't going to be very useful, which is why neither of them offer Y matching, as far as I'm aware. Someone stop me if I'm getting something wrong here.

Of the three STR companies, I'd never heard of them until I looked this up, so I don't imagine they are very popular or that they would bring many uploaders to Gedmatch. YSEQ apparently have a database of about 73,571 STR testers (in comparison to FTDNA's 568,000+) - the others are unknown.

Also, I don't know how relevant this still is but FTDNA do accept Y-DNA uploads from any company that used Sorenson's Lab: https://www.familytreedna.com/landin...-transfer.aspx

Unfortunately, their mentions of Ancestry and GeneTree are rather defunct, since Ancestry discontinued Y-DNA test and GeneTree went out of business. And I know Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation is no longer operating either.
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  #15  
Old 16th October 2017, 04:27 PM
mwwalsh mwwalsh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanica View Post
... (in comparison to FTDNA's 568,000+)
As far as Y STR testing used for full genetic genealogy there is no other effective option than FTDNA.

"635,395 Y-DNA records in the database"

"9,749 surname projects"

https://www.familytreedna.com/why-ftdna.aspx

Please read the "Why Y DNA testing?" answer on the R1b project FAQ page. To be useful for matching and finding potentially related people everyone has to get tested at them STR locations, with the same methods and with access to contact matches, etc. The size and quality of the matching database is critical.

"The comparison method for tree building is simple, just compare validated mutations across potential relatives. If you have two brothers that have the same mutation unique to them then you can legitimately assume their most recent common ancestor, their father, had it. If you check a male cousin and he has the same mutation you can back up a step and know the grandfather had it. However, you need apples to apples comparisons of test results. It is of little value to do tests that few others are doing. Think of this as a team sport. You have to get others potentially related to take the same tests as you do or find them in the matching database. This is why the size of the matching database and recruiting efforts are so important."
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/faq#/FYDNA
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  #16  
Old 16th October 2017, 08:02 PM
The_Contemplator The_Contemplator is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanica View Post
My understanding is that Y SNPs aren't useful for recent genealogy though - it's the STRs which can be.
Y-SNPs can be useful for recent genealogy. Some of the SNP tests you mention look at ancient SNPS which of course won't help with genealogy. However if people were close matches in a new generation sequencing test like Big Y, those SNPs can be used to connect the dots with other people's results. Think of it like a tree. SNPs are the branches and STRs can be the leaves.
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  #17  
Old 16th October 2017, 08:28 PM
Germanica Germanica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwwalsh View Post
As far as Y STR testing used for full genetic genealogy there is no other effective option than FTDNA.

"635,395 Y-DNA records in the database"

"9,749 surname projects"

https://www.familytreedna.com/why-ftdna.aspx

Please read the "Why Y DNA testing?" answer on the R1b project FAQ page. To be useful for matching and finding potentially related people everyone has to get tested at them STR locations, with the same methods and with access to contact matches, etc. The size and quality of the matching database is critical.

"The comparison method for tree building is simple, just compare validated mutations across potential relatives. If you have two brothers that have the same mutation unique to them then you can legitimately assume their most recent common ancestor, their father, had it. If you check a male cousin and he has the same mutation you can back up a step and know the grandfather had it. However, you need apples to apples comparisons of test results. It is of little value to do tests that few others are doing. Think of this as a team sport. You have to get others potentially related to take the same tests as you do or find them in the matching database. This is why the size of the matching database and recruiting efforts are so important."
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/faq#/FYDNA
I didn't really say anything to the contrary. All I'm saying is there are other companies that do Y testing, and we don't know what the size of most of their databases are. Probably, they aren't as big as FTDNA's but who really knows.
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  #18  
Old 25th October 2017, 12:48 AM
wombat wombat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcrone View Post
Seems obvious to me. We have a match who tested with 23 and Me. We know this person matches us on autosomal but we have no way to see if their YDNA is a match for our newphew's Y. Unfortunately, Ysearch seems to have not been maintained and doesn't work very well.
but 23 doesn't test any STR

there is really no other data to compare to other than FTDNA so no point in GEDMATCH replicating FTDNA STR matching (only with a vastly smaller database since most people don't upload to GEDMATCH)
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