One year Geno 2

[Bartot]

It been just over a year, I was wondering if Geno was worth the value for the money spent.

[ragnar]

Not for my son's G haplogroup. Nothing new beyond what was already known.

[bwb1939]

The Geno 2.0 test confirmed Native American in my ancestry. I was never able to prove it otherwise, so from that standpoint the cost for the test was worth it for me.

[MMaddi]

The key feature of Geno 2.0 is the testing of 12,000 yDNA SNPs, most of which are not testable outside scientific labs. Geno 2.0 test results will give men their most downstream SNP. I moved from R1b-Z326 to R1b-Z319, based on my Geno 2.0 results. Other haplogroups have had new subclades discovered based on Geno 2.0 results. Also, there's the possibility that you may be positive for a SNP found outside your known haplogroup, which may be a private SNP; that would be useful in genealogical research. You can't beat the price - $199 for 12,000 SNPs.

The other features of Geno 2.0 are not anything special. You'll get a comprehensive mtDNA haplogroup assignment, based on testing 3,000 mtDNA SNPs. But FTDNA's full mitochondrial sequence, which tests all 16,000+ locations, is still the way to go if you're serious about mtDNA testing. I was given the same mtDNA assignment by Geno 2.0 as I was given by FTDNA from my full mitochondrial sequence. But the chip technology that Geno 2.0 uses can't find novel mutations that you may have which could define a new subclade.

The autosomal admixture percentages given are somewhat disappointing. If you're of mostly European ancestry, you'll get percentages from only three categories - Northern European, Mediterranean and Southwest Asian. And the percentages reflect your geographic admixture going back several thousand years. The admixture analysis given by Family Finder, 23andMe and the free admixture tools at gedmatch.com are more informative than what you'll get from Geno 2.0, since they reflect anywhere from the last 500 to 2,000 years. They will generally give you percentages for more geographic categories.

To sum it up, if you're interested in knowing your terminal yDNA SNP, then I definitely recommend Geno 2.0. If you're female, recruit your brother to take the test. You'll find out your father's yDNA haplogroup/subclade and also your own mtDNA haplogroup. Also, take advantage of the ability to upload Geno 2.0 results into an FTDNA account and join the appropriate haplogroup project. The yDNA results are difficult for most beginners to understand and you'll need the expertise of haplogroup project administrators and other knowledgeable to get the most out of results.

[Osiris]

T results. Also, there's the possibility that you may be positive for a SNP found outside your group, which may be a private SNP; that would be useful in genealogical research. You can't beat the price - $199 for 12,000 SNPs.

.

I was lucky there as I see a several SNPs in my data that occur in other haplogroups that no one would ever have thought to have me test for. I think we'll a lot of SNP occurred multiple times. Itai has a project where he's collected the data and looking at the grid is very cool. I wish I could see the full grid NG has and can't wait for their paper.

The other stuff was interesting but having done FF and full mito I knew more already.

[ajmr1a1]

To sum it up, if you're interested in knowing your terminal yDNA SNP, then I definitely recommend Geno 2.0. If you're female, recruit your brother to take the test.

I concur.
Males should only test Geno 2.0.
Geno 2.0 testing for females might be worth it if the chip included at a minimum the SNP's equivalent to the HVR1 and HVR2 test.

In it's current form, Geno 2.0 is so watered-down it's virtually useless for women. There is a big difference in testing 130K autosomal SNP's versus 900K autosomal DNA SNP's offered by FF or 23andme. No cousin matching is available with Geno 2.0.

The $1000 price point for the full genome sequence (all your chromosomes) will hopefully become a reality within the next 5 to 10 years.
This will render all these individual tests obsolete unless they become much cheaper. (i.e. Geno 3.0 now just $5!!!

[tomcat]

It been just over a year, I was wondering if Geno was worth the value for the money spent.

Too soon to say as Geno 2.0 has yet to publish anything based on the data they have collected and may not have enrolled enough people into Geno 2.0 to amass the data needed to support publication.

[Jim Barrett]

The key feature of Geno 2.0 is the testing of 12,000 yDNA SNPs, most of which are not testable outside scientific labs. Geno 2.0 test results will give men their most downstream SNP. I moved from R1b-Z326 to R1b-Z319, based on my Geno 2.0 results. Other haplogroups have had new subclades discovered based on Geno 2.0 results. Also, there's the possibility that you may be positive for a SNP found outside your known haplogroup, which may be a private SNP; that would be useful in genealogical research. You can't beat the price - $199 for 12,000 SNPs.

I wonder how many of those SNPs any one person will test positive for. For example if you are on the R branch of the tree there are many SNPs you know you'll be negative for. The same would apply to any other main branch.

To sum it up, if you're interested in knowing your terminal yDNA SNP, then I definitely recommend Geno 2.0.

Haven't they found many downstream SNPs that aren't on the Geno 2.0 chip? If this is true you still may not know your terminal yDNA SNP.

Aren't there SNPs on the chip that are failing a positive test when that same person has already tested positive for that SNP at FTDNA.

[MMaddi]

I wonder how many of those SNPs any one person will test positive for. For example if you are on the R branch of the tree there are many SNPs you know you'll be negative for. The same would apply to any other main branch.

It's certainly true that most men who test with Geno 2.0 will be negative for most of the 12,000 yDNA SNPs, since they occur in all haplogroups on the tree. However, there are some cses where someone has a parallel mutation - tests positive for a SNP found outside his haplogroup. As Osiris wrote above, "I was lucky there as I see a several SNPs in my data that occur in other haplogroups that no one would ever have thought to have me test for. I think we'll a lot of SNP occurred multiple times." The only other way Osiris would have found this out was to wildly spend $39/SNP at FTDNA to find a parallel mutation.

Haven't they found many downstream SNPs that aren't on the Geno 2.0 chip? If this is true you still may not know your terminal yDNA SNP.

Aren't there SNPs on the chip that are failing a positive test when that same person has already tested positive for that SNP at FTDNA.

Yes, not every SNP known at this moment in time is included on the Geno 2.0 chip. I think the cutoff for SNPs on the chip was Nov., 2011. So, some who have Geno 2.0 results may not know their terminal SNP. But they'll find the right branch and get some distance down it. Then they would have to order the appropriate downstream SNP from FTDNA.

As far as I've heard, there are a few instances of a false negative for a SNP already tested as positive at FTDNA. Chip technology is inferior to the direct sequencing method that FTDNA uses. But the bottom line is that balancing all the pros and cons, the Geno 2.0 test is a bargain for yDNA testing and can reveal positive SNPs that someone would have to spend more money through individual SNP testing at FTDNA to discover.

[Bartot]

Thanks for all the replies

While keeping a tab on geno 2 for a long while, the conclusion for myself personally to do this test is minimal for the following reasons.

- my yDna is already known by SNP at the max of the L446 branch ( tested positive ) and L447 is now a private marker, so I will be negative for this.

- my MtDna is being checked by Mr.Behar via Genbank and I will get a new subclade as I have been removed from the H2 branch

- ancestry (AuDna ) via nat geno 2 is basically useless, and I see no value in it.

I wonder what benefits I will get down the 23andme path....another one to check

[Jessant]

Untapped potential

Not for my son's G haplogroup. Nothing new beyond what was already known.

Ragnar, have you transferred the Geno 2.0 results to FTDNA? Are you a member of the Haplogroup G project? Have the project admins looked at your raw data?

I think too few have taken this extra step. They're missing out -- the haplogroup designations on the Genographic website tend to be conservative. And, consequently, their closest matches are also missing out.

In my case (not haplogroup G), analysis of my raw data showed that I was actually two levels below what Geno 2.0's website said. I discovered a novel subclade in the process.

I was already in touch with two of my closest Geno 2.0 matches. They turned out to be members of this novel subclade as well. But this wouldn't have been known if I hadn't reached out to them and persuaded them to transfer their results to FTDNA and/or examine their raw data.

I'm trying to get others in my Geno 2.0 "neighbourhood" to do the same, but it's difficult enough making contact, let alone persuading them to share information so that I can better determine the extent of this subclade.

My "My Story' blurb has a message to my closest matches, asking them to transfer to the haplogroup project. Only one has followed through so far.

It probably doesn't help that the Geno 2.0 website's "constellation diagram" is buggy or inaccurate. Over a dozen people in the "View All Stories" section have the same Y subclade designation as me, and yet only a few show up on my diagram. I'd rather a cluttered diagram than an incomplete one.

I did mention this issue on my Geno website survey, filled out a few months ago...

I've seen people on this board mention the same issue with their diagrams. So it's likely that I don't show up on many of my matches' diagrams. And I doubt many people bother to view all stories and then search through the long list for their subclade's stories. So my message asking for collaboration isn't getting through to its intended audience.


My point is that I think some are too quick to dismiss the utility of the Y-SNP portion of the Geno test. There's more to be gleaned from the results than what is provided on the Genographic website, and it seems too few realise this.

[ragnar]

Yes my son is in the haplogroup G project. Not yet for the transfer etc.

[tomcat]

...
It probably doesn't help that the Geno 2.0 website's "constellation diagram" is buggy or inaccurate. Over a dozen people in the "View All Stories" section have the same Y subclade designation as me, and yet only a few show up on my diagram. I'd rather a cluttered diagram than an incomplete one.
...

I tried "All Stories" and found it impossible - slow loading, difficult to scroll through and unsorted - a mess. But I did find others who share my maternal group not on my Our Story page. My paternal group page is forever in flux and all stories in the right hemisphere are cut-off and unreadable.

I suppose they just shovel in the stories and only occasionally sort them.

[darroll]

geno2.0

This works fine.

[khuebner]

I had my brother do Geno 2.0 and we've transferred to FTDNA. However, I'm a little confused because the site simultaneously offers him a yDNA upgrade discount within 14 days of transfer, which one of his project administrators recommends, but his yDNA page also says "Your test results show that your haplogroup is R-M417. A Y-DNA SNP extension test is not available."

He doesn't need to do a FF upgrade as he's got autosomal results that can transfer from 23andMe, but I'm trying to figure out what to do on his yDNA as I've never worked with that before.