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  #1  
Old 1st July 2017, 11:00 PM
mlcarson mlcarson is online now
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Big-Y - mother's paternal side

I've done a Y-111 test on a male 1st cousin of my mother to get Y-DNA results on my mother's side of the family (Grandfather is dead). The Y-111 indicates a R-M269 haplogroup which is probably a R-U106 and maybe a R-L48. I would have purchased a Big-Y for the $425 price that the coupon RAMBigY2017 would have gotten it down to it but it stopped working a day before I got the results back. I'm torn again on doing one of these tests because of the costs -- especially when it's not my own. My own came back with a haplogroup I-BY3095.

My understanding of the R-M269 group is that it's a bit more relevant to genealogy because of the more recent changes. It's a bit tempting to just do a R1B-L48 SNP pack and hope that validates the U-106 and L48 but then that might just point to another major subclade which would require more testing and repeat. Because of all of the existing branches, is this even more of a reason to do Big-Y and have it done with in one test?
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  #2  
Old 2nd July 2017, 01:28 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
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If knowing the most downstream subclade possible, including private SNPs that relate only to the last few generations of the paternal line, is important to you, then Big Y is the way to go. A SNP pack will only get you so far down the branch.

Big Y is expected to be available during the holiday sale (mid-November to Dec. 31), as in past years, for as low as $425 or even $400, with the use of Holiday Rewards coupons. Consider that and, if you want Big Y done, save up each month to order during the sale.

If your mother's cousin has DYS492=13 (66th marker), he can join the R1b-U106 Project - https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/u106/about - without a SNP test. However, we expect members joining on the basis of DYS492=13 to order a SNP test ASAP to confirm that they are in fact positive for U106 or a downstream subclade.

If you decide against Big Y and you tell me your mother's cousin's counts for the following markers (all included in the first 67), I can possibly advise you which SNP pack might be appropriate:

DYS390
DYS447
DYS464d
DYS460
H4
DYS425
DYS492
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  #3  
Old 2nd July 2017, 11:18 PM
mlcarson mlcarson is online now
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I've got the money for the Big-Y available but hate overspending -- there may be a correlation in that.

DYS390 = 22
DYS447 = 25
DYS464d = 17
DYS460 = 11
H4 = 10
DYS425= 12
DYS492 = 13
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  #4  
Old 2nd July 2017, 11:49 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcarson View Post
I've got the money for the Big-Y available but hate overspending -- there may be a correlation in that.

DYS390 = 22
DYS447 = 25
DYS464d = 17
DYS460 = 11
H4 = 10
DYS425= 12
DYS492 = 13
With those counts, you're definitely not Z326+. Based on DYS390=22 and H4=10, you may be Z8+. But you don't have the expected counts for someone who's Z8+ for DYS447 (24) or DYS464d (18).

You'd be taking a chance to order the Z8 SNP pack. So, either order the new backbone SNP pack, which is on sale for $89 for about another week, or the R1b - L48xL47xZ8xZ326 SNP Pack, which costs $119. There is about a 15-20% chance that you're not L48+ with those marker counts. So, the safest course is to order the new backbone SNP pack. But then, in order to get further down your branch to about probably 1,000-1,500 years ago, you'd have to spend another $119 for whatever downstream U106 SNP pack the backbone pack results point you too.

Also, look at your matches at 37 markers and above and see if any of them have tested positive for SNPs downstream from U106. If you see any L48+ matches, then I would be inclined to go with the L48xL47xZ8xZ326 SNP Pack, realizing that it's possible that you're L48-.

Keep in mind that, if you eventually order Big Y down the road, you'd essentially have wasted whatever you spend on SNP packs. Big Y is the right test for any man, no matter what his haplogroup; Big Y will give you positive results whatever your haplogroup/subclade. And it will get you all the way down your branch, to SNPs that are unique to your recent paternal line ancestry. If the price is too much for you, consider saving up each month and ordering it during the holiday sale (mid-November to Dec. 31), when you can order Big Y for as low as $425 or $400.
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  #5  
Old 3rd July 2017, 02:33 AM
mlcarson mlcarson is online now
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No matches at Y-111.
Y67- 23 matches
GD = 6, R-Z9
GD = 7, R- BY18931

Y37 - 23 matches
GD = 4, R-Z9 - same as above

So, I've only got two people who have done further testing but they both go down to the L48 tree.

If I'm reading the tree right then the branches from L48 to BY18931 are:
L48-Z9-S271/Z30-Z27-Z345-Z2-S16218-S21301-BY18931

How likely is that to be the right path?
Order an R-S16218 and roll the dice for $39?
Order an R-Z9 and an R-S16218 for $78 and hope that at least one comes back positive?
Order an R1B-L48 SNP pack which includes everything down to S16218 on the L48 tree?
Or splurge and get the Big-Y?

I'm kind of thinking the R-S16218 gamble could be worth it and I could then always take the Big-Y at the end of the year during the discount. Is a single SNP test actually enough for FTDNA to call the haplogroup?
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  #6  
Old 3rd July 2017, 10:04 AM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcarson View Post
No matches at Y-111.
Y67- 23 matches
GD = 6, R-Z9
GD = 7, R- BY18931

Y37 - 23 matches
GD = 4, R-Z9 - same as above

So, I've only got two people who have done further testing but they both go down to the L48 tree.

If I'm reading the tree right then the branches from L48 to BY18931 are:
L48-Z9-S271/Z30-Z27-Z345-Z2-S16218-S21301-BY18931

How likely is that to be the right path?
Order an R-S16218 and roll the dice for $39?
Order an R-Z9 and an R-S16218 for $78 and hope that at least one comes back positive?
Order an R1B-L48 SNP pack which includes everything down to S16218 on the L48 tree?
Or splurge and get the Big-Y?

I'm kind of thinking the R-S16218 gamble could be worth it and I could then always take the Big-Y at the end of the year during the discount. Is a single SNP test actually enough for FTDNA to call the haplogroup?
It sounds like you really want to order Big Y, but are just uneasy about spending that amount of money. It also sounds like you will eventually end up ordering Big Y.

As I wrote above, spending money on any single SNP or SNP pack is wasting the money if you plan on ordering Big Y. But at least by ordering S16218 as a single SNP, you're limiting the wastage to $39. That still defeats your purpose of not overspending.

Also, Dr. Iain McDonald, the co-administrator of the R1b-U106 Project responsible for estimating subclade ages, estimates that S16218 was "born" about 191 BC (range of 1076 BC — 549 AD) - see http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/table.html. So, knowing your cousin's 1,800 year old subclade should be compared to knowing his private SNPs with Big Y as recently as the last 200 or so years. Is that information worth $39 to you and him?

It's your money, so I can't tell you what to do with it. If it were me, I would be patient and save up the money to order Big Y at the sale price, along with a Holiday Reward coupon, at the end of the year.
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  #7  
Old 7th August 2017, 02:07 AM
rwaldrop rwaldrop is offline
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Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlcarson View Post
No matches at Y-111.
Y67- 23 matches
GD = 6, R-Z9
GD = 7, R- BY18931

Y37 - 23 matches
GD = 4, R-Z9 - same as above

So, I've only got two people who have done further testing but they both go down to the L48 tree.

If I'm reading the tree right then the branches from L48 to BY18931 are:
L48-Z9-S271/Z30-Z27-Z345-Z2-S16218-S21301-BY18931

How likely is that to be the right path?
Order an R-S16218 and roll the dice for $39?
Order an R-Z9 and an R-S16218 for $78 and hope that at least one comes back positive?
Order an R1B-L48 SNP pack which includes everything down to S16218 on the L48 tree?
Or splurge and get the Big-Y?

I'm kind of thinking the R-S16218 gamble could be worth it and I could then always take the Big-Y at the end of the year during the discount. Is a single SNP test actually enough for FTDNA to call the haplogroup?
I know this post is a month old but my father's y67 kit matches S16218 tested individuals and the common surname for them is Shields descended from Ireland in 1600s
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  #8  
Old 9th August 2017, 06:29 PM
mlcarson mlcarson is online now
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Posts: 73
R-S16218

I did a single SNP test for R-S16218 and tested positive for it today so now have a haplogroup of R-S16218. That puts me as far down the tree as possible before needing a Big-Y test. I've now also ordered that mainly because of the sale price. It's a savings of $180 - $38 for the SNP test so still a $142 savings versus the price when I started this thread. I also got results more than a month earlier than I otherwise would have so I'm good with that.

I don't match Shields in any of the Y-STR tests but do match the name Wyatt a lot. I'm expecting a BY18931 call with the Big-Y test but am not as certain on that one. None of my STR matches are that close and not many have done a Big-Y.
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  #9  
Old 10th August 2017, 12:12 AM
rwaldrop rwaldrop is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2017
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I ordered big-y on the first day of the sale batch 773. Have you joined the R1b and u106 groups? I will be sending in my father's results for the big tree. http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=2385&star
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  #10  
Old 10th August 2017, 05:59 AM
mlcarson mlcarson is online now
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Posts: 73
My Big-Y is in batch 774. The Lab procedure is listed as HiYNGS -- is this the same as it's always been? I don't remember that on my first Big-Y test.

I've been a member of the R1B and U106 groups since the Y-111 STR results came in.

The Big Tree link confuses me. I recognize Z2 as being above S16218 but see an intermediate block of 22277095-G-A not present in FTDNA.

R1B-U106->Z30->Z27->Z345->Z2->S16218: FTDNA
R1B-U106->Z381->Z301->L48->Z9->Z30->Z2->22277095-G-A: Big-Tree


My paternal haplogroup is I-BY3095 so the Big Tree wasn't an option. I like it better than the Y-Full so far. I'll definitely submit my Big-Y results to the Big Tree when I get them. Is it still recommended to have Y-full also do an analysis of the Big-Y results like it was in the I-M223 tree?
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