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  #1  
Old 19th June 2014, 06:35 AM
jtoml3 jtoml3 is offline
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Smile Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe results

My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

European - 87%
British Isles - 31%
Scandinavia - 28%
Western and Central Europe - 25%

Middle Eastern - 8%
Asia Minor - 8%

Jewish Diaspora - 6%
Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
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  #2  
Old 19th June 2014, 07:57 AM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoml3 View Post
My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

European - 87%
British Isles - 31%
Scandinavia - 28%
Western and Central Europe - 25%

Middle Eastern - 8%
Asia Minor - 8%

Jewish Diaspora - 6%
Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
Since all the calculators point in the same direction, your results appear to be accurate. Some British and Scots have Scandinavian ancestry. Dna analysis goes back further than paper trails. For example, any hint of Jewish ancestry although 6% is quite low?
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  #3  
Old 19th June 2014, 09:46 AM
Germanica Germanica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoml3 View Post
My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

European - 87%
British Isles - 31%
Scandinavia - 28%
Western and Central Europe - 25%

Middle Eastern - 8%
Asia Minor - 8%

Jewish Diaspora - 6%
Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
A lot of FTDNA results are showing British DNA as Scandinavian and/or West/central Europe (or vice versa)- this is because British DNA was influenced by the Vikings and Germanic tribes so a lot of British DNA is difficult to distinguish from Scandinavian or Germanic. Either that or you had a non-paternity event somewhere in your tree.
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  #4  
Old 19th June 2014, 04:11 PM
jtoml3 jtoml3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
Since all the calculators point in the same direction, your results appear to be accurate. Some British and Scots have Scandinavian ancestry. Dna analysis goes back further than paper trails. For example, any hint of Jewish ancestry although 6% is quite low?
I have a maternal third great grandfather who was Polish Jewish but interestingly had a Scottish last name in the form of Munn. I've read that its possible Scots traded around the Baltic sea and a Munn decided to stay. I'll assume that's the Jewish it picks up.

I would guess the Asian minor might be from the migration patterns into the Balkans which may be connected to the Croatian? It seems like anything past a paper trail is never going to be 100% proved like German or Scandinavian.
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  #5  
Old 19th June 2014, 07:38 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanica View Post
A lot of FTDNA results are showing British DNA as Scandinavian and/or West/central Europe (or vice versa)- this is because British DNA was influenced by the Vikings and Germanic tribes so a lot of British DNA is difficult to distinguish from Scandinavian or Germanic. Either that or you had a non-paternity event somewhere in your tree.

Some areas of Scotland had significant Anglo Saxon presence---this might explain German ancestry.
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  #6  
Old 19th June 2014, 07:50 PM
jtoml3 jtoml3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
Some areas of Scotland had significant Anglo Saxon presence---this might explain German ancestry.
In most of the Gedmatch calculators German is within the top three population distances for myself which is odd because I assume its more distant and wouldn't think it would be so close compared to English or Serbian/Croatian but on the Oracles German is still well represented. These are my Eurogenes V2 K15 results. My late paternal grandmother mother was 100% Croatian.

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 30.84
2 Atlantic 25.2
3 Baltic 11.65
4 Eastern_Euro 10.5
5 West_Med 9.41
6 East_Med 6.02
7 West_Asian 4.54
8 Oceanian 1.11
9 South_Asian 0.51
10 Red_Sea 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Dutch 3.7
2 West_German 5.05
3 North_German 5.48
4 Southwest_English 6.99
5 Southeast_English 6.99
6 Danish 7.25
7 North_Dutch 7.74
8 French 8.12
9 East_German 8.37
10 Irish 8.53
11 West_Scottish 8.96
12 Norwegian 9.75
13 Orcadian 10.19
14 Swedish 10.25
15 Austrian 11.16
16 North_Swedish 11.22
17 West_Norwegian 11.59
18 Hungarian 11.93
19 Southwest_Finnish 13.75
20 Serbian 14.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.2% Southeast_English + 31.8% Serbian @ 1.84
2 79.7% Danish + 20.3% Greek @ 1.99
3 59.2% Orcadian + 40.8% Serbian @ 2.16
4 62.4% West_Scottish + 37.6% Serbian @ 2.16
5 73.5% Southeast_English + 26.5% Romanian @ 2.41
6 78.9% Danish + 21.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.42
7 75.5% Danish + 24.5% Bulgarian @ 2.43
8 63.8% Irish + 36.2% Serbian @ 2.49
9 72.9% Southeast_English + 27.1% Moldavian @ 2.49
10 78.9% North_Dutch + 21.1% Greek @ 2.52
11 71.1% West_Scottish + 28.9% Bulgarian @ 2.58
12 76.4% Southeast_English + 23.6% Bulgarian @ 2.59
13 67.9% West_Scottish + 32.1% Romanian @ 2.6
14 77.7% Danish + 22.3% Tuscan @ 2.63
15 68% Danish + 32% Serbian @ 2.65
16 72.9% Danish + 27.1% Romanian @ 2.69
17 82% Danish + 18% Central_Greek @ 2.71
18 68.2% Orcadian + 31.8% Bulgarian @ 2.74
19 69% Southwest_English + 31% Serbian @ 2.75
20 81.4% South_Dutch + 18.6% North_Swedish @ 2.75

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch @ 4.175
2 West_German @ 5.885
3 North_German @ 6.182
4 Southwest_English @ 7.995
5 Southeast_English @ 8.006
6 Danish @ 8.250
7 North_Dutch @ 8.855
8 French @ 9.246
9 East_German @ 9.739
10 Irish @ 9.775


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Orcadian @ 3.628
2 50% Orcadian +50% Serbian @ 3.770
3 50% South_Dutch +50% West_German @ 3.774
4 50% North_German +50% South_Dutch @ 3.832
5 50% North_German +50% West_German @ 3.896
6 50% South_Dutch +50% South_Dutch @ 4.175
7 50% French +50% North_German @ 4.200
8 50% Serbian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.255
9 50% East_German +50% Southeast_English @ 4.329
10 50% French +50% North_Swedish @ 4.334

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Norwegian @ 2.161
2 50% Southeast_English +25% Serbian +25% West_German @ 2.226
3 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% West_Norwegian @ 2.228
4 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.290
5 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southeast_English @ 2.294
6 50% Danish +25% Serbian +25% South_Dutch @ 2.296
7 50% Danish +25% North_Italian +25% North_Swedish @ 2.300
8 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Serbian @ 2.312
9 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Romanian @ 2.317
10 50% Southeast_English +25% North_German +25% Serbian @ 2.335
643097 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.092
2 Danish + North_German + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.129
3 Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German + West_Scottish @ 2.141
4 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.153
5 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.161
6 North_Dutch + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.200
7 Irish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.212
8 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 2.221
9 Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.226
10 Bulgarian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.228
11 Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.231
12 Norwegian + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.242
13 Danish + Orcadian + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.247
14 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.287
15 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southwest_English @ 2.290
16 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southeast_English @ 2.294
17 Danish + Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.296
18 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.300
19 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.312
20 Danish + Irish + Serbian + West_German @ 2.316
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  #7  
Old 19th June 2014, 08:16 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoml3 View Post
In most of the Gedmatch calculators German is within the top three population distances for myself which is odd because I assume its more distant and wouldn't think it would be so close compared to English or Serbian/Croatian but on the Oracles German is still well represented. These are my Eurogenes V2 K15 results. My late paternal grandmother mother was 100% Croatian.

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 30.84
2 Atlantic 25.2
3 Baltic 11.65
4 Eastern_Euro 10.5
5 West_Med 9.41
6 East_Med 6.02
7 West_Asian 4.54
8 Oceanian 1.11
9 South_Asian 0.51
10 Red_Sea 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Dutch 3.7
2 West_German 5.05
3 North_German 5.48
4 Southwest_English 6.99
5 Southeast_English 6.99
6 Danish 7.25
7 North_Dutch 7.74
8 French 8.12
9 East_German 8.37
10 Irish 8.53
11 West_Scottish 8.96
12 Norwegian 9.75
13 Orcadian 10.19
14 Swedish 10.25
15 Austrian 11.16
16 North_Swedish 11.22
17 West_Norwegian 11.59
18 Hungarian 11.93
19 Southwest_Finnish 13.75
20 Serbian 14.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.2% Southeast_English + 31.8% Serbian @ 1.84
2 79.7% Danish + 20.3% Greek @ 1.99
3 59.2% Orcadian + 40.8% Serbian @ 2.16
4 62.4% West_Scottish + 37.6% Serbian @ 2.16
5 73.5% Southeast_English + 26.5% Romanian @ 2.41
6 78.9% Danish + 21.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.42
7 75.5% Danish + 24.5% Bulgarian @ 2.43
8 63.8% Irish + 36.2% Serbian @ 2.49
9 72.9% Southeast_English + 27.1% Moldavian @ 2.49
10 78.9% North_Dutch + 21.1% Greek @ 2.52
11 71.1% West_Scottish + 28.9% Bulgarian @ 2.58
12 76.4% Southeast_English + 23.6% Bulgarian @ 2.59
13 67.9% West_Scottish + 32.1% Romanian @ 2.6
14 77.7% Danish + 22.3% Tuscan @ 2.63
15 68% Danish + 32% Serbian @ 2.65
16 72.9% Danish + 27.1% Romanian @ 2.69
17 82% Danish + 18% Central_Greek @ 2.71
18 68.2% Orcadian + 31.8% Bulgarian @ 2.74
19 69% Southwest_English + 31% Serbian @ 2.75
20 81.4% South_Dutch + 18.6% North_Swedish @ 2.75

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Dutch @ 4.175
2 West_German @ 5.885
3 North_German @ 6.182
4 Southwest_English @ 7.995
5 Southeast_English @ 8.006
6 Danish @ 8.250
7 North_Dutch @ 8.855
8 French @ 9.246
9 East_German @ 9.739
10 Irish @ 9.775


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Austrian +50% Orcadian @ 3.628
2 50% Orcadian +50% Serbian @ 3.770
3 50% South_Dutch +50% West_German @ 3.774
4 50% North_German +50% South_Dutch @ 3.832
5 50% North_German +50% West_German @ 3.896
6 50% South_Dutch +50% South_Dutch @ 4.175
7 50% French +50% North_German @ 4.200
8 50% Serbian +50% West_Scottish @ 4.255
9 50% East_German +50% Southeast_English @ 4.329
10 50% French +50% North_Swedish @ 4.334

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% Norwegian @ 2.161
2 50% Southeast_English +25% Serbian +25% West_German @ 2.226
3 50% Southeast_English +25% Bulgarian +25% West_Norwegian @ 2.228
4 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southwest_English @ 2.290
5 50% Danish +25% Bulgarian +25% Southeast_English @ 2.294
6 50% Danish +25% Serbian +25% South_Dutch @ 2.296
7 50% Danish +25% North_Italian +25% North_Swedish @ 2.300
8 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Serbian @ 2.312
9 50% Southeast_English +25% Danish +25% Romanian @ 2.317
10 50% Southeast_English +25% North_German +25% Serbian @ 2.335
643097 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.092
2 Danish + North_German + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.129
3 Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German + West_Scottish @ 2.141
4 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.153
5 Bulgarian + Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.161
6 North_Dutch + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.200
7 Irish + Serbian + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.212
8 Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 2.221
9 Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German @ 2.226
10 Bulgarian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.228
11 Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian @ 2.231
12 Norwegian + Serbian + South_Dutch + Southeast_English @ 2.242
13 Danish + Orcadian + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.247
14 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 2.287
15 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southwest_English @ 2.290
16 Bulgarian + Danish + Danish + Southeast_English @ 2.294
17 Danish + Danish + Serbian + South_Dutch @ 2.296
18 Danish + Danish + North_Italian + North_Swedish @ 2.300
19 Danish + Serbian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 2.312
20 Danish + Irish + Serbian + West_German @ 2.316
With Dutch and southeast England populations, Anglo Saxon seems to fit.
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  #8  
Old 19th June 2014, 08:26 PM
jtoml3 jtoml3 is offline
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Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
With Dutch and southeast England populations, Anglo Saxon seems to fit.
That's what I was thinking. My haplogroup is R-M269 R1b so I pondered whether they migrated through Germany to Southern Netherlands (Belgae perhaps?) and then onto England. That would justify why I have German and South Dutch appearing but I don't know if that is historically correct.
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  #9  
Old 20th June 2014, 03:07 AM
mixedkid mixedkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoml3 View Post
My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Irish, Scottish and Maori and therefore am quite surprised at how much Scandinavian and Western and Central Europe I have. German seems to come up on all of the Gedmatch calculators so do I assume German is accurate? I get Scandinavian on most of the calculators however I get mostly Danish and Swedish but as I have no paper trail to either I can't narrow one down. Danish comes up mostly on Eurogenes.

Its possible my Croatian is for some reason elevating both percentages in some indirect way.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. my MyOrigins results are:

European - 87%
British Isles - 31%
Scandinavia - 28%
Western and Central Europe - 25%

Middle Eastern - 8%
Asia Minor - 8%

Jewish Diaspora - 6%
Ashkenazi Diaspora - 6%
As far as your Scandinavian goes: My guess is that it is largely coming from your British ancestors. Perhaps it's due to Viking influence. Perhaps it's due to more recent Scandinavian immigration to Britain. My father, with one grandmother of Norwegian background, gets matches in England with no known Norwegian ancestry -- I know of one fellow though who came from an area of England which had been settled by Norwegian Vikings. Your Scottish ancestors, especially, probably had some Scandinavian ancestry. (If memory serves me well, several of my maternal grandparents' Scottish ancestors intermarried with people from the Orkney Islands, which were largely settled by Norwegian Vikings.) If your German ancestors came from northern Germany, Scandinavian (especially Danish) is probably in their backgrounds as well.

The Jewish Diaspora findings? My guess is that you have a definite Jewish ancestor in there somewhere. It might be past the great-grandparent level but that person existed.

Last edited by mixedkid; 20th June 2014 at 03:12 AM.
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  #10  
Old 21st June 2014, 03:00 AM
jtoml3 jtoml3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedkid View Post
As far as your Scandinavian goes: My guess is that it is largely coming from your British ancestors. Perhaps it's due to Viking influence. Perhaps it's due to more recent Scandinavian immigration to Britain. My father, with one grandmother of Norwegian background, gets matches in England with no known Norwegian ancestry -- I know of one fellow though who came from an area of England which had been settled by Norwegian Vikings. Your Scottish ancestors, especially, probably had some Scandinavian ancestry. (If memory serves me well, several of my maternal grandparents' Scottish ancestors intermarried with people from the Orkney Islands, which were largely settled by Norwegian Vikings.) If your German ancestors came from northern Germany, Scandinavian (especially Danish) is probably in their backgrounds as well.

The Jewish Diaspora findings? My guess is that you have a definite Jewish ancestor in there somewhere. It might be past the great-grandparent level but that person existed.
With regards to the Scandinavian I get some Norwegian variant on Gedmatch calculators but its not consistent. I'm confident the German is legitimate due to how often it appears across the calculators but the Dutch is a slight mystery. Migration paths may explain it along with the Danish. I hardly have any Y-DNA matches in Scandinavia so I guess that must be maternal and the German paternal, as I have a few matches in Germany at the 12 ad 27 marker level.
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