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  #1  
Old 15th April 2012, 02:19 PM
RondaMiller RondaMiller is offline
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New PhyloTree and Me

FTDNA has had me at H1 since I tested last year and here are my results:

HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM rCRS 16519C

HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM rCRS
152C
195C
263G
315.1C
523.1C
523.2A

CODING REGION DIFFERENCES FROM rCRS
750G
1438G
3010A
4769G
8860G
11864C
15326G

I have been looking over the new phylotree with great interest and of course 3010 is for H1 but then I noticed that 1438 is with H2 and then 4769 is for H2a. So my question is, am I going to be a better fit, if you will, for H2 or H2a then for H1?

I used this nifty tool: http://vps1.jameslick.com/dna/mthap/mthap.cgi and my 'fit's' are H1, H(195), H and H2.
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  #2  
Old 15th April 2012, 02:44 PM
Jomid59 Jomid59 is offline
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The new revision puts the estimated ages (emergence) at:
H2 11905.3 years ago
H2a 10531.8 ya
H1 9888.6 ya

So I guess that puts you in H1 as that is your most recent polymorphism.

Last edited by Jomid59; 15th April 2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: typo
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  #3  
Old 15th April 2012, 10:43 PM
thetick thetick is offline
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Not sure why the more recent mutation would mean your in that group? Just curious what you base that on?
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  #4  
Old 16th April 2012, 12:25 AM
GST GST is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RondaMiller View Post
FTDNA has had me at H1 since I tested last year and here are my results:
...
I have been looking over the new phylotree with great interest and of course 3010 is for H1 but then I noticed that 1438 is with H2 and then 4769 is for H2a. So my question is, am I going to be a better fit, if you will, for H2 or H2a then for H1?

H1 is correct -- this is a bit confusing, but FTDNA lists our results as differences from the Cambridge Reference Sequence (CRS) which is H2a2a. As a result, mutations at sites specific to H2a2a are listed in the results for everyone who is NOT H2a2a. If you compare your results to Phylotree, you will see that H2 is defined by G1438A, while you have the ancestral value at this site, A1438G.
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  #5  
Old 16th April 2012, 11:20 AM
RondaMiller RondaMiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GST View Post
H1 is correct -- this is a bit confusing, but FTDNA lists our results as differences from the Cambridge Reference Sequence (CRS) which is H2a2a. As a result, mutations at sites specific to H2a2a are listed in the results for everyone who is NOT H2a2a. If you compare your results to Phylotree, you will see that H2 is defined by G1438A, while you have the ancestral value at this site, A1438G.
Oh ok I see now - thank you.
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  #6  
Old 16th April 2012, 11:41 AM
RondaMiller RondaMiller is offline
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This is the part that threw me however (from: http://vps1.jameslick.com/dna/mthap/mthap.cgi) :

3) H2

Defining Markers for haplogroup H2:
HVR2: 263G
CR: 750G 4769G 8860G 15326G
HVR1:

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H2 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a(rCRS) ⇨ 263G 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 152C 195C (315.1C) 524.1A 524.2C 1438G 3010A 11864C (16519C)

Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
Matches(5): 263G 750G 4769G 8860G 15326G
Extras(7): 152C 195C (315.1C) 524.1A 524.2C 1438G 3010A 11864C (16519C)
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  #7  
Old 16th April 2012, 08:21 PM
Jomid59 Jomid59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetick View Post
Not sure why the more recent mutation would mean your in that group? Just curious what you base that on?
Temporal logic.

It would appear to be a coincidence that it was correct.

RhondaMiller understands and is happy with the explanation given by GST and that is the important thing.
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  #8  
Old 26th April 2012, 06:04 PM
villandra villandra is offline
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Look out for age estimates in the "new revision". Behar et al do not date H1 to 10,000 BC. They date it to 8,000 BC. Then they insist that, even though it originated in the Middle East or southeatern Europe, H1 spent the ENTIRE last ice age in Spain, which could not have happened even if it originated in 10,000 BC.

Also, now, if my maternal line ancestor was from southern England, and most H1 inflow to southern England was from post-ice age Spain, why is my coding region partial match from Finland? I don't think so!

Not to mention why does Basque DNA pretty closely match that of Sardinia, and their languages have much in common as well. That's the Mediterranean Neolithic, not the last ice age. Mediterranean Neolithic was in 6,000 BC, between the emergence of H1 and its arrival in Basque country, following the Mediterranean Neolithic path of migration which both circled the coast of Spain and cut directly across through Basque territory.

If Behar et al want to insist that H1 spent the last ice age in Basque country, they have to date it to atleast 20,000 BCE, and pretty much noone still puts it that far back. Basque country spent the last ice age completely isolated from the eastern refugia.

Interesting. I researched it and took it apart, at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb..../MitoLine.html

Dora
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  #9  
Old 26th April 2012, 06:05 PM
villandra villandra is offline
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I didn't read all of this thread. It appears you differ from H1 by at most one mutation. It is possible you do not appear on the phylotree because noone else shares this mutation for you.

Make sure you use the search feature in your browser to check the right portion of the phylotree for your mutation.
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  #10  
Old 26th April 2012, 06:14 PM
villandra villandra is offline
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One other thing. You could not make it onto the current phylotree unless you either submitted your sequence to Genbank, or gave Family Tree DNA permission to use your sequence for research, or possibly both. One may have been more important than the other.

Alot of people are keeping their complete mitochondrial sequences deep dark secrets, because certain "experts" have been propounding from on high. that in case of the highly unlikely event that you have a coding region mutation that has a serious adverse effect on health, that you did not already know about, it would be highly unethical to allow anyone in your entire mitochondrial lineage to know they need to seek medical care. The more I say bunk, as well as point out that it's unethical by all the standards I learned in graduate school, not to share knowledge that could save someone else's health, the more high and mighty and regal people like that get.

If you want to be on the phylotree, you have to release your sequence. Otherwise it will be forever private, your maternal line relatives will not find you, and you wno't possibly help build the new clade that you eventually fall into.

I belong to a new clade that consists entirely of my own sequence (plus that of a likely 10th cousin from New England), and one of Dr. Behar's research subjects. If I had not contributed to the research the knowledge that enabled me to learn anything about the ancestral whereabouts of this lineage could not have been constructed, so I wouldn't find anything. The probable 10th cousin has already learned alot about her ancestry that she didn't already know because her complete mitochondrial sequence match found me - not possible if I'd kept my sequence a secret.

Dora
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