R-L664

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  • PDHOTLEN
    FTDNA Customer
    • Feb 2006
    • 2181

    R-L664

    I've been waiting for an L664 thread to be launched. So I'm finally launching it myself. But I am no expert. I just belong to this clade myself.

    I obviously made a typo in the title of this thread. How do I correct it?
    Last edited by efgen; 18 March 2013, 03:26 PM. Reason: Title fixed.
  • PDHOTLEN
    FTDNA Customer
    • Feb 2006
    • 2181

    #2
    Does anyone know the Y-DNA haplogroup of Rollo, First Duke of Normandy? He came from Norway in the general area of where L664 is found. And there are a few of this haplogroup in SE England, presumably from Norman origins.

    Comment

    • 1798
      Registered User
      • Jan 2009
      • 4005

      #3
      I thought that the TMRCA of L664 is 5000 ybp.Why do you think that it belongs to the Normans?

      Comment

      • PDHOTLEN
        FTDNA Customer
        • Feb 2006
        • 2181

        #4
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        I thought that the TMRCA of L664 is 5000 ybp.Why do you think that it belongs to the Normans?
        I wasn't being scientific. I just wanted to get a conversation going about L664. L664 is now broken down into 4 groups. The Rollo/Norwegian component of the Viking invasion of the Normandy coast has my group (NW cluster 2). It is rather out of place in that neck of the woods, compared to the other groups. Rollo himself may not have had L664 (cluster2). But one or more of his men sure did. Actually, as far as I know, there are no samples of that L664 (cluster 2) from France. But 3 or 4 people in SE England (according to an online map I saw) have it.
        Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 18 March 2013, 12:53 PM.

        Comment

        • PDHOTLEN
          FTDNA Customer
          • Feb 2006
          • 2181

          #5
          Here is an interesting map I stole from Google:

          This branch is characterized by SNP L664, representing an early (>6200 years ago) split from R1a1a1 (M417) tree. Red pins belong to the NW-1 sub-branch of 4200±500 years to its common ancestor. Deep-blue pins correspond to haplotypes belonging to sub-branch YP282 with 2200±240 years to its common ancestor. The most recent common ancestor of both branches lived no less than 5000±600 years before present.


          Let's see if it shows up OK.

          Comment

          • PDHOTLEN
            FTDNA Customer
            • Feb 2006
            • 2181

            #6
            The above Google map shows a different classification scheme from that of Lupinski in the R1a Project. I prefer the R1a Project version, with L664 divided into 4 clusters, since he/they are continuously on top of it.

            King Clovis of the 400s AD, who started the Merovingian dynasty is listed in NW cluster III, sub-cluster c1, in the R1a Project. Although shown as a Ripuarian Frank, he was actually a Salian Frank. But nevermind the difference. The point is, he was a core Frank. One source I bumped into said there is an oral tradition of the core Franks coming from Scandinavia originally. That they were pirates, allied with the Friesians is an apparent historical fact. After they were forced to move south into Roman territory by the Saxons, they gave up their seafaring ways. Cluster III looks to be closely related to cluster II, which makes sense. Maybe they'll eventually be merged. But I haven't looked at the specific mutations. I'll leave that to the experts.
            Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 24 March 2013, 12:30 AM.

            Comment

            • PDHOTLEN
              FTDNA Customer
              • Feb 2006
              • 2181

              #7
              I just ordered a SNP test for CTS4385. I received another email wanting me to test for it. It is just a synonym for L664, according to the ISOGG chart. But it will reaffirm my L664 if positive, I suppose.

              Comment

              • PDHOTLEN
                FTDNA Customer
                • Feb 2006
                • 2181

                #8
                Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                I just ordered a SNP test for CTS4385. I received another email wanting me to test for it. It is just a synonym for L664, according to the ISOGG chart. But it will reaffirm my L664 if positive, I suppose.
                Hmm... I see that it is another SNP on ISOGG that is a synonym: CTS7083. I don't know where they dug up CTS4385 from. But I see several others with L664+ have already been tested for CTS4385. So far they have all come out positive, with a few others waiting for their results. I also notice that the price for SNP tests has gone up from $29 to $39 for each SNP.

                Comment

                • 1798
                  Registered User
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 4005

                  #9
                  Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                  I've been waiting for an L664 thread to be launched. So I'm finally launching it myself. But I am no expert. I just belong to this clade myself.

                  I obviously made a typo in the title of this thread. How do I correct it?
                  Is there a modal haplotype for L664? The modal and SNP are linked so you can look at the origin place of the majority of those who have the SNP.

                  Comment

                  • PDHOTLEN
                    FTDNA Customer
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 2181

                    #10
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    Is there a modal haplotype for L664? The modal and SNP are linked so you can look at the origin place of the majority of those who have the SNP.
                    I am clueless as to whether or not there is a modal. I get my information from the R1a Project (Lapinski, et al.). The reason, it looks like, that I was sent emails to have the CTS4385 SNP test done is that no one with L664+ roots in the Scandinavian peninsula has had it done yet. So I am filling in a gap.

                    Comment

                    • PDHOTLEN
                      FTDNA Customer
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 2181

                      #11
                      Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                      I am clueless as to whether or not there is a modal. I get my information from the R1a Project (Lapinski, et al.). The reason, it looks like, that I was sent emails to have the CTS4385 SNP test done is that no one with L664+ roots in the Scandinavian peninsula has had it done yet. So I am filling in a gap.
                      I just tried to also test for SNP F871, but FTDNA doesn't offer that SNP test. Someone from Sweden, who is in my sub-clade, tested positive for F871.

                      Comment

                      • 1798
                        Registered User
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 4005

                        #12
                        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                        I just tried to also test for SNP F871, but FTDNA doesn't offer that SNP test. Someone from Sweden, who is in my sub-clade, tested positive for F871.
                        You could check out at ysearch all the people who are closest to you at 67 markers and copy and paste them to the McGee utility.You can create your modal there.

                        Comment

                        • PDHOTLEN
                          FTDNA Customer
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 2181

                          #13
                          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                          You could check out at ysearch all the people who are closest to you at 67 markers and copy and paste them to the McGee utility.You can create your modal there.
                          That's too complicated for my feeble brain and old laptop. As far as FTDNA is concerned, I have only one match at 67 markers, with 7 steps. He is from Norway.

                          L664 is now tentatively divided into 4 branches (see R1a project, Lapinski et al). The B group (my group) is mainly Scandinavia plus Viking areas in the UK. Group C looks to be close to group B. Groups A and D are mainly continental and UK.

                          Comment

                          • PDHOTLEN
                            FTDNA Customer
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 2181

                            #14
                            I have a rare new 12 marker match (1 step) dated yesterday, although I don't know if he is L664. He has an email address in Norway. I basically don't know who my ancestors were in Norway, so it wouldn't be much use to follow it up. Anyway, I now have a total of 12 twelve marker matches, 2 of which are "private". Two of those matches have "Dr." in front of them.

                            Comment

                            • PDHOTLEN
                              FTDNA Customer
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 2181

                              #15
                              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                              I have a rare new 12 marker match (1 step) dated yesterday, although I don't know if he is L664. He has an email address in Norway. I basically don't know who my ancestors were in Norway, so it wouldn't be much use to follow it up. Anyway, I now have a total of 12 twelve marker matches, 2 of which are "private". Two of those matches have "Dr." in front of them.
                              And yet another match! I hope they get an L664 test.

                              Comment

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