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  #1  
Old 8th August 2017, 02:23 PM
Mudgeeclarke Mudgeeclarke is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia/South Carolina US
Posts: 521
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Most Known Novel, or Least SNP difference

Hello:

I have what is probably a newbie question, so please bear with me.

My brickwall is the NPE at G GF Paternal. So I take tests and kick sand and turn over leaves. I do see some names pop up again and again, but five or six surnames. And a couple of singletons that are almost closest.

Question: My Big Y results I can sort various ways : two ways being Most Shared Novel SNPs, and Known SNP Difference

The person at the top of the list (in first 10) for Most Shared Novel SNPs is also very close to me with terminal SNP at YFull etc. However, when shuffled to Known SNP difference, that #1 person drops to #10.

And the first three on that new Known SNP Difference (each with Zero difference) are the top #1 (all same surname BTW).

Should I be concentrating on those with Most Shared Novel SNPs or those with Zero Known SNP difference.

I've attached grabs, to illustrate.

Thanks for reading.

Colin Clarke
Y23824 U3b2a
BigY YFull FMS FF
(and a partridge in a pear tree. )
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Known-SNP-Diff.jpg (155.0 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Shared-Novel-Variants.jpg (188.2 KB, 5 views)

Last edited by Mudgeeclarke; 8th August 2017 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Signature
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  #2  
Old 8th August 2017, 04:22 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,378
You're finding out that the Big Y matching/analysis that you get from FTDNA is as clear as mud. The analysis that you'll get from the appropriate haplogroup project administrator will be far more useful than what you've been given by FTDNA.

Intuitively, I think the answer is that probably those closest to you will share the most novel variants, regardless of known SNP differences. But not knowing your haplogroup/subclade, I think your best hope of getting a handle on using your Big Y results in comparison with other Big Y results in your haplogroup/subclade is to consult with a project administrator for this haplogroup.

Are you a member of the appropriate most downstream haplogroup project? If so, do the administrators of that project offer some find of free analysis and comparison program? I know this is the case for the R1b-U106 Project, but don't know how common that is. I do know that Alex Williamson has his Big Tree which compares Big Y results for anyone who's P312+.

Last edited by MMaddi; 8th August 2017 at 04:24 PM.
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  #3  
Old 8th August 2017, 04:47 PM
Mudgeeclarke Mudgeeclarke is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia/South Carolina US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMaddi View Post
You're finding out that the Big Y matching/analysis that you get from FTDNA is as clear as mud. The analysis that you'll get from the appropriate haplogroup project administrator will be far more useful .....
Thank you for taking time to reply.

Oh, I'm in many Projects and appropriate HG forums, and via Alex Williamson, although I would not say any of those good folk have enough time to deal with my search for an NPE back at GGF level.

You're right about trying to see through mud, although I put that down to my abysmal understanding of how all this works. Artist, yes. Scientist, No. Meanwhile, I have taken every test possible with FTDNA, including (in the distant past now) individual SNP searches recommended by project Admins. I am at YFull, Gedmatch, and sundry other places.

My HG Terminal at Y23824 is a very lonely twig, just three of us, I think, that I see. What I need is a sudden influx of UK testees, all within 100 miles of Cambridge. �� Meanwhile, I follow the paper trails - more a 50,000 piece jigsaw puzzle of mainly blue sky, without clouds.

Onwards and Upwards ��

Colin Clarke
Y23824 U3b2a
BigY YFull FMS FF
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  #4  
Old 8th August 2017, 06:09 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudgeeclarke View Post
Thank you for taking time to reply.

Oh, I'm in many Projects and appropriate HG forums, and via Alex Williamson, although I would not say any of those good folk have enough time to deal with my search for an NPE back at GGF level.

You're right about trying to see through mud, although I put that down to my abysmal understanding of how all this works. Artist, yes. Scientist, No. Meanwhile, I have taken every test possible with FTDNA, including (in the distant past now) individual SNP searches recommended by project Admins. I am at YFull, Gedmatch, and sundry other places.

My HG Terminal at Y23824 is a very lonely twig, just three of us, I think, that I see. What I need is a sudden influx of UK testees, all within 100 miles of Cambridge. �� Meanwhile, I follow the paper trails - more a 50,000 piece jigsaw puzzle of mainly blue sky, without clouds.

Onwards and Upwards ��

Colin Clarke
Y23824 U3b2a
BigY YFull FMS FF
If only two other men who've taken Big Y share Y23824 with you, then those are your closest matches. Just ignore the confusing match table that FTDNA gives you.

If you've uploaded your Big Y raw data zip file, containing the VCF and BED files, to the file section of the appropriate Yahoogroup, that has been or will soon be included in age estimates for P312 subclades that Iain McDonald is starting to put out. If you haven't yet uploaded your Big Y raw data and you wish to get an age estimate for Y23824, check with your haplogroup project administrator about where to upload the zip file.

Maybe you'll find that one of the two who share Y23824 with you also share enough of your private SNPs to indicate a common ancestor within a genealogical time frame. That may give you a clue about the surname of your great-grandfather's birth father. That would be an important piece of the 50,000 piece puzzle, not just another blue sky piece.
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  #5  
Old 9th August 2017, 04:33 PM
JSW JSW is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 304
HI I suggest you go with Most Shared Novel SNPs, and not the known differences.
Here is an example of why
My brother is two KNOWN SNPs away from me.
My brother is three KNOWN SNPs away from a 6th cousin
I am 5 KNOWN SNPs away from that same 6th cousin - so I do not match him per FTDNA

Our Novel SNPs for the three of us, using my brothers BIG-Y as the start, are in the range of 35
and with the next closet, not known to be a related man, has
13 Shared Novel Variants and (only) 1 Known non-matching SNP
The next person in the list sorted by Novel Variants
has 13 shared 4 known SNP differences

That one SNP is PF810 I wonder if that is a false mismatch also.
Bottom line for me is look at Shared Novel Variants.
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  #6  
Old 10th August 2017, 04:46 AM
Mudgeeclarke Mudgeeclarke is offline
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia/South Carolina US
Posts: 521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSW View Post
HI I suggest you go with Most Shared Novel SNPs, and not the known differences.
Here is an example of why ...... ....... ......
Bottom line for me is look at Shared Novel Variants.
Many thanks for a clear example, and a positive suggestion. Shared Novel seems the logical way. Even with that, I'm a long way short of your cousin example, although I realize the quantity of shared novels will vary. When one has no idea who the paternal line is at father of G GF, finding the DNA matches is pretty much a sit and wait game.

I have definitely put my results out there, far and wide, and with quite a few project admins, inside and out of FTDNA, Iain McDonald "project" and the P312 Yahoo amongst them. There are just a few repeated surnames with whom I have lots of matches throughout the Y25-Y111 and it would be nice if some of those went BigY and YFull - there has to be a reason why I have 30-40 of the same family names at the lower Y tests.

Anyway, I'm still plugging away at the paper trails. Maybe one day I will see a confluence. Again, many thanks.

Colin Clarke
S1491 > Y23824
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