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  #1  
Old 24th May 2010, 07:16 PM
alani
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Angry Surname Project Blocks Membership - Wales_Cymru_DNA Project

I have been a member of the Wales_Cymru_DNA Project for over three years. Today, after being contacted by an Administrator, I have been blocked from participating. In fact this Administrator had limited my particpation without notifying me. Today she stated that my maternal lines were not Welsh, off of the top of her head. This even though I am a Genealogy Researcher and have been accepted as Welsh by the Welsh Council. I am a member of several Family Tree DNA Groups of Welsh descendants.

According to her, there is now a requirement that members of the group send in Genealogy Charts, and documents, proving lines to her satisfaction. She refused to tell me who the experts are that will be examing the documentation. She is asking for birth, death, marriage, and other documentation from me to my ancestors. That is private information and I do not know this woman from Adam. She refuses to answer any questions about who will see my documents, and that is unacceptable. he stated that I had not sent in my test results, and that is untrue. I sent them in when I joined the group several years ago. I also exchanged genealogical information with the previous administrator, who is my DNA Cousin. The previous Administrator left the group, after the death of her husband. How dare a Group Administrator make a comment with no evidence to back it up. She stated in her message to me that my Maternal Lines were not Welsh and that is a lie. My mtDNA results are Haplogroup T2, of European Extraction, and the chart shows my ancestor in Wales. The Llewellyn or Lewis line is one of the oldest Welsh lines there is. This Administrator has some issues, and one of them is she does not know what she is doing.

I sent a complaint to Family Tree DNA about the treatment I received from this person.

Here is a copy of the message she sent blocking me from the Group:

You have been removed from Surname Project Wales_Cymru_DNA.

The Group Administrator for this project has decided to remove you from the Surname Project giving the following reason:

"As discussed in detail in our emails, apparently the direct maternal line, which is your mtDNA line, is not Welsh."

Last edited by alani; 24th May 2010 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Correct misspelling
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  #2  
Old 24th May 2010, 07:32 PM
smith1 smith1 is offline
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call her on the phone and pull a Roy D. Mercer ! I bet she'd change her attitude quick !
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  #3  
Old 24th May 2010, 08:41 PM
DKF DKF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alani View Post
I have been a member of the Wales_Cymru_DNA Project for over three years. Today, after being contacted by an Administrator, I have been blocked from participating. In fact this Administrator had limited my particpation without notifying me. Today she stated that my maternal lines were not Welsh, off of the top of her head. This even though I am a Genealogy Researcher and have been accepted as Welsh by the Welsh Council. I am a member of several Family Tree DNA Groups of Welsh descendants.

According to her, there is now a requirement that members of the group send in Genealogy Charts, and documents, proving lines to her satisfaction. She refused to tell me who the experts are that will be examing the documentation. She is asking for birth, death, marriage, and other documentation from me to my ancestors. That is private information and I do not know this woman from Adam. She refuses to answer any questions about who will see my documents, and that is unacceptable. he stated that I had not sent in my test results, and that is untrue. I sent them in when I joined the group several years ago. I also exchanged genealogical information with the previous administrator, who is my DNA Cousin. The previous Administrator left the group, after the death of her husband. How dare a Group Administrator make a comment with no evidence to back it up. She stated in her message to me that my Maternal Lines were not Welsh and that is a lie. My mtDNA results are Haplogroup T2, of European Extraction, and the chart shows my ancestor in Wales. The Llewellyn or Lewis line is one of the oldest Welsh lines there is. This Administrator has some issues, and one of them is she does not know what she is doing.

I sent a complaint to Family Tree DNA about the treatment I received from this person.

Here is a copy of the message she sent blocking me from the Group:

You have been removed from Surname Project Wales_Cymru_DNA.

The Group Administrator for this project has decided to remove you from the Surname Project giving the following reason:

"As discussed in detail in our emails, apparently the direct maternal line, which is your mtDNA line, is not Welsh."
Is your mother's mother's mother's (direct female line) from Wales. I am constantly refusing admission to my Shetland Project due to the fact that while some do have Shetland ancestors they do not meet either the direct Y line or direct mt line requirements. For example it is their father's mother's line which does not come from Shetland. I do ask for the names of their ancestors. My role is to verify eligibility and to protect the integrity of the data (which has standards fairly close to those found in academic studies).
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  #4  
Old 25th May 2010, 12:48 AM
alani
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Post Surname Project Blocks Membership

The Administrator was belligerent when I asked her what information she was requesting. She stated that she was requesting Birth Certificates, and other personal documents to prove lineage. I am a member of the DAR, and a Native Tribe, which asks for detailed proof of lines. I also examined documents and prove lines for those who want to prove their lines. The Family Tree DNA Site, is not the DAR, and I do not want my information floating around. I know that the DAR has my application safely tucked away from prying eyes. This administrator refused to tell me who would be reviewing my documents. I have no objection to giving her a chart with my lines going back to Wales, it is the documents she is requesting. None of these requirements were present when I joined this group over three years ago. She stated that I had not submitted my DNA results, which tells me that they are disorganized. This Administrator, restricted my membership, without telling me. My ancestors are the Llewellyn of Breconshire and Monmouthshire Wales. My direct male Lewis ancestor was a Revolutionary War Soldier, and he married a Lewis cousin. In fact my DNA Cousins from Wales are the ones who provided the links that I connected to. The kicker is that I am a member of the Group Patriots and Royal Family's of England And Wales.

She then made a blatant statement that I have NO maternal lines in Wales. I sent a complaint to Family Tree DNA about this Administrator. I no longer want to join the group, but this person is way over the line. It is not what she said, or did, by how it was done. The Groups exists to assist those who are on a common search, and have a common Genetic Link. Now it has become some sort of blood line group, it is not a means to an end, it is the end. By that I mean when I was accepted into the DAR, it was my goal. Joining the DNA Groups should be a means to assist you, not an end unto itself (IMHO).

Okay, I am finished griping. I appreciate your response.

Last edited by alani; 25th May 2010 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Correct misspelling
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  #5  
Old 25th May 2010, 07:44 AM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alani View Post
The Administrator was belligerent when I asked her what information she was requesting. She stated that she was requesting Birth Certificates, and other personal documents to prove lineage. I am a member of the DAR, and a Native Tribe, which asks for detailed proof of lines. I also examined documents and prove lines for those who want to prove their lines. The Family Tree DNA Site, is not the DAR, and I do not want my information floating around. I know that the DAR has my application safely tucked away from prying eyes. This administrator refused to tell me who would be reviewing my documents. I have no objection to giving her a chart with my lines going back to Wales, it is the documents she is requesting. None of these requirements were present when I joined this group over three years ago. She stated that I had not submitted my DNA results, which tells me that they are disorganized. This Administrator, restricted my membership, without telling me. My ancestors are the Llewellyn of Breconshire and Monmouthshire Wales. My direct male Lewis ancestor was a Revolutionary War Soldier, and he married a Lewis cousin. In fact my DNA Cousins from Wales are the ones who provided the links that I connected to. The kicker is that I am a member of the Group Patriots and Royal Family's of England And Wales.

She then made a blatant statement that I have NO maternal lines in Wales. I sent a complaint to Family Tree DNA about this Administrator. I no longer want to join the group, but this person is way over the line. It is not what she said, or did, by how it was done. The Groups exists to assist those who are on a common search, and have a common Genetic Link. Now it has become some sort of blood line group, it is not a means to an end, it is the end. By that I mean when I was accepted into the DAR, it was my goal. Joining the DNA Groups should be a means to assist you, not an end unto itself (IMHO).

Okay, I am finished griping. I appreciate your response.
Please read DKF's post before yours. It probably tells you why the project adminstrator you're complaining about acted as she did.

She has told you that you have no maternal lines in Wales. Is that in fact true? For it to be false, you would have to have a documentable maternal line ancestor (mother, maternal grandmother, maternal grandmother, maternal grandmother's mother, etc.) from Wales. Your mtDNA result reflects the ancestry of that maternal line. If your maternal line is not from Wales, as the administrator seems to think, then she is right in excluding your results from the project.

DKF has addressed this question in his post. As administrator of the Sicily Project, I have had similar experiences to what he describes. For the DNA results in a geographic project, whether dealing with Wales, Shetland or Sicily, to provide any meaningful information, the lines included as project members must actually have ancestry from the geographic area in question. I have had many people who have English, German, Arab or other non-Sicilian ancestry join the Sicily Project because they are E1b1b or J2 and see lots of E1b1b's or J2's in the Sicily Project. I ask them to prove to me some sort of Sicilian ancestry in the paternal line and they can't, so I remove them as project members.

I will say that perhaps the administrator you complain about may have been able to be more diplomatic or accomodating in dealing with your situation. When I have people who have Sicilian ancestry, but not in the paternal or maternal lines, I use my ability to hide their results on the public website. If they wish, I allow them to remain project members, since they have some ancestry from Sicily and an interest in the project. Then they are able to receive any updates I send to members and join the Yahoogroup for project members to discuss various issues related to Sicilian genealogy and DNA results.

Perhaps you can propose to this administrator a similar sort of status for you, since you do have some Welsh ancestry.
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  #6  
Old 25th May 2010, 01:20 PM
alani
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The Administrator was not as diplomatic as you are. I was already a member of the group, and she blocked my access to it without telling me. I had no idea that the rules of membership changed. It would seem that the entire group would be in on any changes to membership rules. The previous Administrator has also left the group. She and I are DNA Cousins, and share common ancestors in Wales. I am not sending anyone my personal information, especially someone who is just a Group Administrator. She did not tell me who would be examining my documents, nor who would have access to them. I was a former Group Administrator for Family Tree, and they did not ask me if I had a criminal background, nor what experience I had in Genealogy Research. That is why I am complaining to Family Tree DNA about the actions of this Administrator. Unless they prove to me that they are qualified Genealogists, and Researchers, I have no intention of sharing private information with them.

I would urge other Group members to bring this matter up with Family Tree DNA.

Anita Wills

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMaddi View Post
Please read DKF's post before yours. It probably tells you why the project adminstrator you're complaining about acted as she did.

She has told you that you have no maternal lines in Wales. Is that in fact true? For it to be false, you would have to have a documentable maternal line ancestor (mother, maternal grandmother, maternal grandmother, maternal grandmother's mother, etc.) from Wales. Your mtDNA result reflects the ancestry of that maternal line. If your maternal line is not from Wales, as the administrator seems to think, then she is right in excluding your results from the project.

DKF has addressed this question in his post. As administrator of the Sicily Project, I have had similar experiences to what he describes. For the DNA results in a geographic project, whether dealing with Wales, Shetland or Sicily, to provide any meaningful information, the lines included as project members must actually have ancestry from the geographic area in question. I have had many people who have English, German, Arab or other non-Sicilian ancestry join the Sicily Project because they are E1b1b or J2 and see lots of E1b1b's or J2's in the Sicily Project. I ask them to prove to me some sort of Sicilian ancestry in the paternal line and they can't, so I remove them as project members.

I will say that perhaps the administrator you complain about may have been able to be more diplomatic or accomodating in dealing with your situation. When I have people who have Sicilian ancestry, but not in the paternal or maternal lines, I use my ability to hide their results on the public website. If they wish, I allow them to remain project members, since they have some ancestry from Sicily and an interest in the project. Then they are able to receive any updates I send to members and join the Yahoogroup for project members to discuss various issues related to Sicilian genealogy and DNA results.

Perhaps you can propose to this administrator a similar sort of status for you, since you do have some Welsh ancestry.
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  #7  
Old 25th May 2010, 02:42 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alani View Post
The Administrator was not as diplomatic as you are. I was already a member of the group, and she blocked my access to it without telling me. I had no idea that the rules of membership changed. It would seem that the entire group would be in on any changes to membership rules. The previous Administrator has also left the group. She and I are DNA Cousins, and share common ancestors in Wales. I am not sending anyone my personal information, especially someone who is just a Group Administrator. She did not tell me who would be examining my documents, nor who would have access to them. I was a former Group Administrator for Family Tree, and they did not ask me if I had a criminal background, nor what experience I had in Genealogy Research. That is why I am complaining to Family Tree DNA about the actions of this Administrator. Unless they prove to me that they are qualified Genealogists, and Researchers, I have no intention of sharing private information with them.

I would urge other Group members to bring this matter up with Family Tree DNA.

Anita Wills
I'm not judging the administrator's handling of the situation. I'm just pointing out to you that it's possible that, in order to protect the accuracy of the mtDNA results for the Wales geographic project, she was right to regard your results as not related to the project. Whether she could have handled it better or could have offered to keep you as a project member without displaying your mtDNA results on the project website is another question entirely.

So I hope you understand my point. If you don't have a maternal grandmother or another female ancestor along that maternal line from Wales, there was good reason for her to take some sort of action. In fact, she was giving you a chance to prove that your maternal line is Welsh by asking for some documentation of that.

Last edited by MMaddi; 25th May 2010 at 02:54 PM.
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  #8  
Old 25th May 2010, 02:53 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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I just realized that the title of this thread refers to "Surname Project...". In response to the initial post, DKF and I have been discussing the project in question as a geographic project, which very well could have different considerations for who can be a member than a surname project.

In fact, although the name of the project is "Wales_Cymru_DNA" - Surname Project, if you look on the FTDNA listing of project pages, it appears in the Dual Geographic Projects page under the letter "W," along with other geographic projects - see http://www.familytreedna.com/surname...projecttype=DG

And here is what is written for the description of the project: "YOU MUST HAVE TRACED YOUR DNA LINE BACK TO THE COUNTRY OF WALES IN ORDER TO JOIN THIS PROJECT! Due to the importance of determining the genetic profile of the indigenous populations of the British Isles, The Wales DNA Project will attempt to collect the DNA haplotypes of as many persons as possible who can trace their Y-DNA and/or mtDNA lines to Wales." This is found on the online order form page where you can order a test kit and join the project - http://www.familytreedna.com/project...projecttype=DG

So it is made clear that in order to join the project you must have documentation that your paternal and/or maternal line can be traced to Wales. Since there's a new project administrator, maybe that's a new requirement for joining. But it is stated quite clearly on the page where someone can join the project.
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  #9  
Old 25th May 2010, 03:26 PM
alani
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Post You Missed the Point

You missed the point I made about sending my personal documents to someone who is not a professional Genealogists. I already sent a chart to the previous Administrator, who is my DNA Cousin. So do every time the Administrator changes, the rules change?
Since we are in America, it is going to be a difficult task to go back eight generations and provide proof of ancestry. Maybe that is why there are so few people joining these groups.

Maybe you are not missing my point, but ignoring it.

Anita
QUOTE=MMaddi;225493]I'm not judging the administrator's handling of the situation. I'm just pointing out to you that it's possible that, in order to protect the accuracy of the mtDNA results for the Wales geographic project, she was right to regard your results as not related to the project. Whether she could have handled it better or could have offered to keep you as a project member without displaying your mtDNA results on the project website is another question entirely.

So I hope you understand my point. If you don't have a maternal grandmother or another female ancestor along that maternal line from Wales, there was good reason for her to take some sort of action. In fact, she was giving you a chance to prove that your maternal line is Welsh by asking for some documentation of that.[/QUOTE]

Last edited by alani; 25th May 2010 at 03:27 PM. Reason: grammatical correctio.
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  #10  
Old 25th May 2010, 03:53 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alani View Post
You missed the point I made about sending my personal documents to someone who is not a professional Genealogists. I already sent a chart to the previous Administrator, who is my DNA Cousin. So do every time the Administrator changes, the rules change?
Since we are in America, it is going to be a difficult task to go back eight generations and provide proof of ancestry. Maybe that is why there are so few people joining these groups.

Maybe you are not missing my point, but ignoring it.

Anita
I'm not trying to argue with you.

I'm just saying that if she had an indication that none of your maternal line ancestors were Welsh, then she had to take some action. She asked you for documentation of that to eliminate her doubt that your results might not qualify for inclusion in the project.

You've never bothered to answer my question about your maternal line. If your maternal line is in fact Welsh, then she is wrong in excluding your results from the project. But she gave you a chance to prove her wrong by asking for some documentation. If your maternal line is not Welsh, then she is right in excluding your results.

If I were to think of it as you are right now, I would have no right as administrator to ask new members of the Sicily Project who have an obviously non-Italian surname whether their paternal line is Sicilian or not. I'm sorry, but my job as administrator is to make decisions about whose results qualify them for project membership or not. The administrator you're complaining about was acting based on the same responsibility.
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