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Paternal Lineage (Y-DNA STR) Basics This is an area for those who are new to DNA testing for genealogy can ask about Y-DNA STR based tests and their test results. All may view this forum, but you must register and sign in to post.

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  #1  
Old 25th May 2018, 10:29 AM
SuzanneB SuzanneB is offline
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Question Y-DNA results - need to understand

Hi

The results for my husband Y-37 are in and they are so dissimilar to what I saw in the results for my uncle that I do not understand. My uncle has tons of matches for 12 and 25 and none at 37 ..

My husband has only 2 matches for 12 with a genetic distance of 0 and nothing else at all. Nothing. And these 2 are not in the 25 and 37 matches.

Then 4 matches at 25 and 2 for 37 with a genetic distance of 4 which are the same as two that matches for 25 with a genetic distance of 2 and with same haplogroup.. That is great..

But what I don't get is why so few matches for the 12 for my husband , compare to my uncle who has 11 132 matches for the 12 and 335 for the 25 with three of them being at 0 genetic distance .. ???

And why are the matches for 24 not in the 12 ?

I need to understand and I need more matches for my husband.

His dad was adopted. We know who the mother is, but no idea who is the father.

We also did family finder and the results are not too promising . Nothing over 73cM and a lot of people do not put the names of their ancestors and/or a family tree, so I cannot know where they are related as I could eliminate the known relations or isolate the father's side of the equation. And most don't answer their e-mail.

Ty Suzanne
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  #2  
Old 25th May 2018, 12:31 PM
dna dna is offline
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Could you please tell us the haplogroups FTDNA had predicted for both of them?

Also, is any STR for your husband having a value of zero (0) ?


Mr. W.


P.S.
Nothing unusual in the results.
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  #3  
Old 25th May 2018, 12:41 PM
TwiddlingThumbs TwiddlingThumbs is offline
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Some haplotypes get a lot fewer matches than others either because (i) they are rarer or (ii) relatively few men with that haplotype have gotten tested (eg they are common in cultures or in parts of the world where few people get tested).

It is not usual for matches at a lower number of STRs to not be matches at a higher number of STRs or vice versa. For example, a match with a genetic distance of 4 at 37 STRs might have a genetic distance of 2 at 12 STRs and therefore not show up as a match at 12 STRs. The genetic distance at the highest number of STRs at which both men have tested is what you should focus on.
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  #4  
Old 25th May 2018, 01:37 PM
SuzanneB SuzanneB is offline
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My husband haplogroup is R-M269 which is very common . And 2 of his 4 matches for 25 are also R-M269. The 2 others are different probably because they went farther in their testing.

I do not see any 0 in his STR certificate.

I am very surprise that there are not more matches in comparison to my uncle (they are the same haplogroup but not related at all). That is my concern.

Thank you-SB


Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post
Could you please tell us the haplogroups FTDNA had predicted for both of them?
Also, is any STR for your husband having a value of zero (0) ? Mr. W.
P.S.
Nothing unusual in the results.
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  #5  
Old 25th May 2018, 01:52 PM
SuzanneB SuzanneB is offline
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Thanks,
I will focus on that for sure as these 2 matches are interesting but my concern is the lack of matches for my husband in a very common haplogroup. My uncle (same haplogroup) got thousands of matches at 12 and 25 with 0, 1 and 2 genetic distance. Another mystery for me to try to unveil.
SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiddlingThumbs View Post
Some haplotypes get a lot fewer matches than others either because (i) they are rarer or (ii) relatively few men with that haplotype have gotten tested (eg they are common in cultures or in parts of the world where few people get tested).

It is not usual for matches at a lower number of STRs to not be matches at a higher number of STRs or vice versa. For example, a match with a genetic distance of 4 at 37 STRs might have a genetic distance of 2 at 12 STRs and therefore not show up as a match at 12 STRs. The genetic distance at the highest number of STRs at which both men have tested is what you should focus on.
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  #6  
Old 25th May 2018, 03:13 PM
KATM KATM is offline
mtDNA: K1a3 | Y-DNA: R-L1308*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic coast, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,100
As Twiddling Thumbs noted, your husband may be in a sub-branch of R-M269 that has not had many people tested, thus not a lot of people who could match him. As time goes on, more people will test and he will get more matches. DNA testing is a game of patience.

Another point is, don't worry about the quantity of matches at the Y-12 level; most of those, as you've seen, do not carry through matching at the higher levels. Since your husband's father was adopted, you can use these Y-STR results to see if a common surname keeps showing up. They may indicate your father-in-laws birth father's name.

R-M269 is a very major branch of the R1b branch of haplogroup R; there are many, many sub-branches and "twigs" below it. The only way to find out in which of these sub-branches (called subclades) your husband and/or uncle are, is to do SNP testing. Keep it in mind for the future, anyway. In the meantime, you could have your husband and your uncle join the "R_R1b ALL Subclades" project here at FTDNA (log into the kit, hover over "Projects" in the top left menu, select "Join a project," then select "R" under "Y-DNA HAPLOGROUP PROJECTS," and from under "R," choose the top project, "R _R1b ALL Subclades"). The administrators of that project will provide guidance on possible further testing, and direct you to the appropriate subclade project, should you decide to join the project and get their advice.

Also note, if you decide to do any future tests, that FTDNA has sales throughout the year, and the next likely sale will be in June, for Father's Day, when it is highly likely that Y-DNA tests will be featured on sale. It may be good to upgrade your husband's kit to Y-67 at that time, to see if either of his two matches at Y-37 continue to match him at the higher level. You should check those Y-37 matches first, to see to what level they have tested; if you see Y-DNA67, upgrade to that level, or if Y-DNA111, upgrade to that level. Matches at the highest levels (67, 111) are more significant than those at the lower levels (12, 25). Note, though, that even at Y-111, there may be too many differences for the match to be a very close relative. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

See the FTDNA Learning Center for it's "Y-DNA – Matches Page." Scroll down to the questions area (with the blue "plus" signs) and read:
  • Are all of my Y-DNA matches in the database shown on the Y-DNA - Matches page?
  • On the Y-DNA - Matches page, are only exact matches shown?
It says there:
Quote:
"* For Y-DNA12 matches, 11 out of 12 matches are only shown with both customers belong to the same group project.
However, to best serve our customers who are adopted, we provide at the Y-DNA12 level both 11/12 and 12/12 matching to the entire Family Tree DNA database to those in the Adoptee Project. This is because they cannot know the best Surname project to join in advance of testing."
So, you may want to join your husband to the Adoptee Project, just to see if more matches (and perhaps more with the same surname) show up at the Y-12 marker level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzanneB View Post
And why are the matches for 24 not in the 12 ?
Since the cut-off for matches varies at each level of STR testing (12, 25, 37, 67, 111), sometimes you will get matches at a higher level that do not show in a lower level. For example, matches at the Y-12 have to have 0 differences, (unless you are in the same project, or in the Adoptee Project, when 1 difference is allowed). But, at 25 markers you can have up to 2 markers different (genetic difference), and at 37 you can have up to 4 markers difference. So, your husband may have someone who doesn't match him at the Y-12 level, with only 0 or 1 difference allowable, but that person will match him at a higher level, where more differences are allowable. This doesn't happen a lot, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzanneB View Post
Then 4 matches at 25 and 2 for 37 with a genetic distance of 4 which are the same as two that matches for 25 with a genetic distance of 2 and with same haplogroup.. That is great..
It is great, because those may be more meaningful matches. Do they have the same surname? Has your husband's father (or your husband, if his father is no longer living) been able to get any information about his birth father, such as non-ID information? You may want to visit dnaadoption.com for more guidance. Oh, and if your father-in-law is still living, see if he will do a Family Finder test.

Last edited by KATM; 25th May 2018 at 03:15 PM.
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  #7  
Old 25th May 2018, 03:47 PM
SuzanneB SuzanneB is offline
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Posts: 13
Thank you so very much KATM

You ave explained why I see only 2 match , same person though so 1 match is more accurate, in the Y-12 chart. This part is clear now.

I will ask my husband to join in the adoptee project so we can see more matches, hopefully, and also my uncle as he is in a similar situation. My uncle already has thousands of matches but maybe not the right ones.

I also found a 2nd cousin 1r that is adopted .He is looking for his paternal lineage. I will also tell him about these projects.

I will keep note of all these info for futur reference ..

Again, thank you so so much . I have hope again .. SB
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  #8  
Old 25th May 2018, 04:20 PM
SuzanneB SuzanneB is offline
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Posts: 13
Follow up

I am trying to find the link for the «Adotee project » and I can't .. I found this one called GAGP : https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/gagp/about

Do you know if it is the one they mean in the learning center as they do not provide a link.

As for finding anything about his grand-father, we could not when his father was alive. He tried. No one wanted to talk about it in his family. He passed away a few years ago so can't use his DNA.

ty
SB
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  #9  
Old 25th May 2018, 06:05 PM
dna dna is offline
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@SuzanneB

On a lighter note, what would you do if he had four or five thousands of matches with 12 markers? And each and every week new ones were coming?

That is a very real experience for some men within R-M269.


Mr. W.


P.S.
That does not happen often, but some men still get only the Y-DNA12 test.
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  #10  
Old 25th May 2018, 06:20 PM
SuzanneB SuzanneB is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 13
Yes, my uncle is in that situation .. 11 300 matches at that level ..He has none at 37 .

I would just love a little bit more then 5 matches, all level included, for my husband ..

But this forum has helped me clarify a few things .
Many thanks
SB

Quote:
Originally Posted by dna View Post
On a lighter note, what would you do if he had four or five thousands of matches with 12 markers? And each and every week new ones were coming?

That is a very real experience for some men within R-M269.


Mr. W.


P.S.
That does not happen often, but some men still get only the Y-DNA12 test.
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