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  #1  
Old 26th August 2017, 10:57 PM
mjclayton31 mjclayton31 is offline
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Haplogroup match and Y-DNA

Hello, Forum-

First post here...

One of my matches at FTDNA - he's No. 7 on my list - matches on Y-DNA as to Haplogroup R-U152. We have 86 shared cM's and the longest block is 38 cM's. Doesn't this mean that we share a common MALE ancestor? Maybe a 3rd or 4th great-grandfather? This person is Italian and I have no "known" Italian heritage.

My 23andMe test shows 13.4% Italian and MyHeritage only 4.1%. FTDNA shows zero, but lumps me with 19% Sephardic. Open book there...

I have made contact with this match and he seems amenable to the contact. He only goes back to his great-grandfather on his father's side. None of the names mesh with my Tree (which go even further back). Do we have an adoption/NPE at work here? Possibly going back a generation or more beyond his great-grandfather? Try as I might, I don't know how to "actually" connect with this match.

Any and all feedback is appreciated...

Thanks.

Mark
(Kit B201816)

Last edited by mjclayton31; 26th August 2017 at 10:59 PM. Reason: Added Kit No.
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  #2  
Old 27th August 2017, 11:32 AM
DaveInGreece DaveInGreece is offline
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Location: Greece
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You say that you're both R-U152. That does technically mean that you are related on the direct male line, but that connection could be several thousand years ago.

To know your haplogroups you must both have taken the Y37 (or better) Y-STR test. Are you two a match? These Y-STR tests will show whether or not there's a "recent" link on the direct make line (which could still be several hundred years ago, depending on what level of testing you both took and how close the match (if any) is.

FTDNA has a truly ridiculous system of including pointless 1cM segments in the total, making the total virtually meaningless. If you compare yourself to the Italian in Chromosome Browser, are there any additional shared segments over 7cM, or is it just the one at 38cM? If it's just that one segment, then estimating the relationship distance is virtually impossible. I know of 6th cousins sharing that much on a single segment.

As for Ancestry Composition, I'd trust 23andMe far more than I trust My Heritage (it gives me more than 25% Scandinavian when my ancestry is all Britain and Ireland) and this year's version of My Origins here at FTDNA is also rubbish for my family. Have you uploaded your data to Gedmatch.com to see what their admixture tools estimate?
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  #3  
Old 27th August 2017, 08:53 PM
mjclayton31 mjclayton31 is offline
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Hi, Dave-

Thanks for your detailed response...

I took the 23andMe "full boat" test ($199.00). It gave me the R-U152 Haplogroup result. My Italian match was strictly thru FTDNA, which I had uploaded my raw data to. This match was No. 7 on my list. I also have a No. 2 match who I have not yet contacted. To be clear, both match No. 2 and match No. 7 have Italian surnames, which is why they interest me here. Based on the Chromosome Browser, it doesn't appear as if the No. 2 and No. 7 share any of the same segments. As to Match No. 7, his info stated he took the Y-111 test...

The Family Finder Chromosome Browser tool says that match No. 7 and I have 14 shared segments, although there are only five (5) 5cM+ ones on Chromosomes 1-22 (two on Chromosome 1, two on Chromosome 4 and one on Chromosome 14)..

And, yes, I have uploaded to Gedmatch I won't bog down the string here by copying that data, but will say that the Eurogenes K13 (4 population) result includes East Sicilian and the K15 (Oracle4) results indicate some Italian Abruzzo. This is completely open to interpretation, of course...

If you want to take a peek at my results yourself, I'm kit# 554233. Thanks again for your time.

Mark
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  #4  
Old 28th August 2017, 11:46 AM
TwiddlingThumbs TwiddlingThumbs is offline
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Just because you are the same haplotype as another man and your atDNA results show that you may be fourth cousins does not mean that you are fourth cousins through the male line. According to YFull, R-U152 originated about 4,400 years ago. Your atDNA results relationship, on the other hand, is within the past few hundred years and could be from any ancestor. Based on your atDNA matches and ancestry composition results, it does sound likely that that common ancestor was of Italian descent.
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  #5  
Old 29th August 2017, 11:21 PM
mjclayton31 mjclayton31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiddlingThumbs View Post
Just because you are the same haplotype as another man and your atDNA results show that you may be fourth cousins does not mean that you are fourth cousins through the male line. According to YFull, R-U152 originated about 4,400 years ago. Your atDNA results relationship, on the other hand, is within the past few hundred years and could be from any ancestor. Based on your atDNA matches and ancestry composition results, it does sound likely that that common ancestor was of Italian descent.

Thank you for your post, TT...

Mark
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  #6  
Old 30th August 2017, 06:39 AM
Alexandrina Alexandrina is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 134
You will need a Y-DNA test in order to see if you
directly relate to this person.

These are on special right now. Ending tomorrow
for the Sale.

A Y37 will suffice however Y67 is better if you
can afford it. Join a Surname project when
ordering. The Admins there will help you further.


Alexandrina
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  #7  
Old 7th September 2017, 10:42 PM
mjclayton31 mjclayton31 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 16
Thanks, Alexandrina. I've ordered my Big-Y DNA kit (sales price), so we'll see what that says. Too bad they say the wait is 10-12 weeks for the results. I should get the kit in a couple more days.

I've been in contact with a couple of my Italian FTDNA matches. Nothing obvious in terms of a (person) connection. However, the relevant Messina comuni appear to be Saponara and Villafranca, so at least that's (potentially) interesting/revealing.
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