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  #141  
Old 10th October 2017, 04:44 PM
genealice genealice is offline
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Same problem - had a live chat with Ancestry

I have just had a live chat with Dirk at Ancestry. He says the change to the raw data files was announced on 5/12/2016. https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/...estrydna-chip/

The files are smaller, Dirk says, because:

"It is due to certain snps being removed as they don't pertain to what we are testing for... Not necessarily a fault, but that there have been changes made and we can't determine what they [FTDNA] do on their end ... Yes, as far as I have been told the kits tested since the update described in the blog will be smaller as snps were refined so there will be less text or lines of data."

So it looks as if the ball is in FTDNA's court. As my file uploaded ok on Gedmatch and My Heritage, it does seem to be about FTDNA.
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  #142  
Old 10th October 2017, 05:31 PM
KATM KATM is offline
mtDNA: K1a3 | Y-DNA: R-L1308*
 
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I hope everyone will keep in mind that the ability to transfer your file from one DNA testing company to another is an added feature made possible by the company you transfer to (whether FTDNA, My Heritage, or other). No company has a responsibility to accept another companies files, or is under any obligation to do so. They do it to serve current customers, and attract new customers. The receiving company often has to do extra work in order to accept the files. Of course they should keep customers up to date on their ability to accept files; that's an issue that seems to be aggravating things in this case.

Since each company changes their chip at their own convenience, it's likely that the others have no idea ahead of time when the new chip will start to be used. It's understandable that customers get upset when these changes happen, and they try to upload a recent file that is not accepted, where earlier files were.

We need to remember that in the current circumstances, the newer chips being used by 23andMe and Ancestry have much fewer SNPs in common with FTDNA's chip. There may be no satisfactory solution to making the new files work at FTDNA with the same quality that the older files did. It's very possible that the matches will be less reliable, or at least fewer in quantity. You can see on the ISOGG Autosomal SNP Comparison chart how the new chips compare with the current FTDNA chip.

Both Ancestry and 23andMe have changed their chips (now customized chips called GSA, from the chip-making company Illumina) to incorporate an increased amount of medically relevant SNPs. Your medical information is profitable for them. FTDNA has always removed many such SNPs on their chip. We shall have to wait and see if FTDNA can change things so that the new files can be accepted. Eventually they, too, will have to change their chip (Illumina will not make the current OmniExpress chip any more) - but I doubt they will do so in the way that the other two companies have done.

Places like GEDmatch (which has a new section created just for these new chips, called "GEDmatch Genesis") and others like DNA.Land and MyHeritage are using imputation in order to make transferred files work with earlier chip version files. That is not necessarily a good thing; see Roberta Estes' post "Imputation Matching Comparison" (second of what will be three posts on the topic) for one look at it.

Last edited by KATM; 10th October 2017 at 05:47 PM.
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  #143  
Old 10th October 2017, 06:47 PM
genealice genealice is offline
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Thanks for the explanation

Aggravating is the word. Some of the wording of the error message does beg a question and compounds the aggravation, especially after the time spent on trying to upload files.

As a consumer, even for a free service or one at minimal cost, I may have grumbled for a few seconds if I had been alerted about the new generation of chips on the upload page, but a short well-judged paragraph giving reasons and then marketing the benefits of FTDNA would have felt more respectful, even if disrespect wasn’t intended!
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  #144  
Old 10th October 2017, 07:10 PM
prairielad prairielad is offline
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Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genealice View Post
Aggravating is the word. Some of the wording of the error message does beg a question and compounds the aggravation, especially after the time spent on trying to upload files.

As a consumer, even for a free service or one at minimal cost, I may have grumbled for a few seconds if I had been alerted about the new generation of chips on the upload page, but a short well-judged paragraph giving reasons and then marketing the benefits of FTDNA would have felt more respectful, even if disrespect wasn’t intended!
FamilytreeDNA does state which files the do accept on their transfer page
https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer
"
23andMe© V3
23andMe© V4
AncestryDNA™ V1
AncestryDNA™ V2

Unfortunately, at this time, you cannot transfer 23andMe© V1 or 23andMe© V2 results from 23andMe©"

Granted they have not included in the final statement that 23andMeV5 and possibly Ancestry New chip version is not accepted
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  #145  
Old 10th October 2017, 08:42 PM
genealice genealice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prairielad View Post
FamilytreeDNA does state which files the do accept on their transfer page
https://www.familytreedna.com/autosomal-transfer
"
23andMe© V3
23andMe© V4
AncestryDNA™ V1
AncestryDNA™ V2

Unfortunately, at this time, you cannot transfer 23andMe© V1 or 23andMe© V2 results from 23andMe©"

Granted they have not included in the final statement that 23andMeV5 and possibly Ancestry New chip version is not accepted
Hi,

Nice to hear from you. I remember reading many years ago a book on creating websites called "Don't Make Me Think". I do think the link to the page you've given me should have the note regarding incompatible formats much higher up, or a bold link like "check if your format is compatible" at the top. On my laptop it looks as if the sign up and the top list listing the companies is all there is.

It does not tell people to scroll down to the other information.

There is nothing on the "submit" page where, imo, there should be a list of those formats which will not be accepted. Of course if someone has a better idea of how to present it, that's fine as well.

But at the moment it's not intuitive and important information will easily be missed. Many, like me, will spend hours trying to upload a file which isn't accepted but I have noted you have said that even the list lower down on the webpage of the link you have given is not up to date.

Of course I'm sure there are factors which I'm not mentioning involved. But ... there should be clear flagging up for the consumer. The length of this thread shows it is not clear. I am purely talking as a consumer and there are plenty of aspects of Family Tree DNA which are excellent - just not this! If FTDNA had been clear about this, I wouldn't be on this thread.

My file which is not accepted has the following header. Am I correct in assuming it is one of the new chips? It certainly seems to be one of the Ancestry smaller files. I have left some lines out to get to the nub of the matter!


#Data was collected using AncestryDNA array version: V2.0
#Data is formatted using AncestryDNA converter version: V1.0
#Below is a text version of your DNA file from Ancestry.com DNA, LLC. THIS
#INFORMATION IS FOR YOUR PERSONAL USE AND IS INTENDED FOR GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH
#ONLY. IT IS NOT INTENDED FOR MEDICAL, DIAGNOSTIC, OR HEALTH PURPOSES. THE EXPORTED DATA IS


So far it does not upload to Ancestry (I've opened this file up but obviously I've tried many times in the zip non-text format without opening up the download).
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  #146  
Old 10th October 2017, 11:28 PM
ltd-jean-pull ltd-jean-pull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genealice View Post
I have just had a live chat with Dirk at Ancestry. He says the change to the raw data files was announced on 5/12/2016. https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/...estrydna-chip/

The files are smaller, Dirk says, because:

"It is due to certain snps being removed as they don't pertain to what we are testing for... Not necessarily a fault, but that there have been changes made and we can't determine what they [FTDNA] do on their end ... Yes, as far as I have been told the kits tested since the update described in the blog will be smaller as snps were refined so there will be less text or lines of data."

So it looks as if the ball is in FTDNA's court. As my file uploaded ok on Gedmatch and My Heritage, it does seem to be about FTDNA.
That's nice that you think Dirk understands the issue. This is NOT related to the changes that were made in May 2016 when Ancestry started to use a new chip. FtDNA had to make some changes to accept uploads from the new chip so uploads were not possible for anyone tested with the new chip for several months. Then it was possible again, until fairly recently. Files that are being downloaded now are often missing several SNPs and will not upload to FtDNA.

Dirk is probably keen to help but doesn't know what he is talking about.
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  #147  
Old 11th October 2017, 05:57 AM
genealice genealice is offline
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Ah, you’re so psychologically astute about me - yes, I’m a nice person who skips through life thinking happy thoughts about everybody .

Whatever the timing involved, it does seem likely that it’s about the change in file size which Dirk from Ancestry did address:

“ ... Yes, as far as I have been told the kits tested since the update described in the blog will be smaller as snps were refined so there will be less text or lines of data."

As I’ve said, it would be good practice for FTDNA, as it offers and advertises the service, to alert people about the smaller Ancestry files and that they will not upload. For me, it’s been a waste of time and effort, although I have got to meet nice people like you - and Dirk! lol
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  #148  
Old 11th October 2017, 08:30 AM
chrisbonisa chrisbonisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genealice View Post
I have just had a live chat with Dirk at Ancestry. He says the change to the raw data files was announced on 5/12/2016. https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/...estrydna-chip/

The files are smaller, Dirk says, because:

"It is due to certain snps being removed as they don't pertain to what we are testing for... Not necessarily a fault, but that there have been changes made and we can't determine what they [FTDNA] do on their end ... Yes, as far as I have been told the kits tested since the update described in the blog will be smaller as snps were refined so there will be less text or lines of data."

So it looks as if the ball is in FTDNA's court. As my file uploaded ok on Gedmatch and My Heritage, it does seem to be about FTDNA.
You are describing a different change that happened last year. I've got 5 total dna samples from ancestry and 3 different formats:

11/24/2014 v1.0 - 701495 lines
03/01/2017 v2.0 - 668961 lines
08/25/2017 v2.0 - 668961 lines
09/29/2017 v2.0 - 668961 lines
10/08/2017 v2.0 - 650429 lines

These are possibly +1 lines if you count the last line-feed. Clearly the last "v2.0" one is in a different format of some kind and its the only one not accepted by FTDNA. Even "changing" the new format one to the other 2.0 formats by removing new snps and filling the missing snps with no-calls doesn't seem to fix it as FTDNA wont accept that new file either with the same error message, although its possible my method of creating this new file is introducing other changes to the file I'm unaware of. I'm willing to provide the last 2 samples to anyone who has the programming skills to attempt what I did. Let me know...
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  #149  
Old 11th October 2017, 08:43 AM
chrisbonisa chrisbonisa is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
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FTDNA is really missing the boat here......I've actually paid for all my autosomal transfers to upgrade($19), and wanting to do the same thing to my non-working file but cannot. I've also paid for a y-dna 37 test ($160). This non working file unfortunately is one of the most important I need to be able to import as it's my mom and my dads dna is not available. Clearly we need a fix here, and they are losing lots of money not fixing it!
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  #150  
Old 11th October 2017, 09:06 AM
aprilmcg123 aprilmcg123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by genealice View Post
Ah, you’re so psychologically astute about me - yes, I’m a nice person who skips through life thinking happy thoughts about everybody .

Whatever the timing involved, it does seem likely that it’s about the change in file size which Dirk from Ancestry did address:

“ ... Yes, as far as I have been told the kits tested since the update described in the blog will be smaller as snps were refined so there will be less text or lines of data."

As I’ve said, it would be good practice for FTDNA, as it offers and advertises the service, to alert people about the smaller Ancestry files and that they will not upload. For me, it’s been a waste of time and effort, although I have got to meet nice people like you - and Dirk! lol
While Dirk's explanation may sound logical when you're only looking at a single file which will not upload, I manage several profiles for my family members and have found that results files from tests run within a single month of each other are of different sizes and some are accepted for upload to ftdna while others aren't. So this can't possibly be due to them using less SNP's for all customers since May 2016.
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