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  #11  
Old 28th December 2017, 09:26 AM
Armando Armando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvbellomo View Post
But people who paid for BigY are advanced users unlikely to be mislead, and people who see nothing have gotten nothing for what they paid for - especially if they can't get BAM files.
How in the world is anyone supposed to know if a match is going to show up without them getting tested first? How do you know if you will not get a significant match in the next few years? How do you feel about telling potential matches that they should not get a BigY test which could in turn cause you to not get a match for a lot longer time from now than would occur without the complaint?
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  #12  
Old 28th December 2017, 10:39 AM
dtvmcdonald dtvmcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvbellomo View Post
BigY is primarily promoted as a tool for those with samples that are outliers to further our knowledge of the tree of human y-genetics and provide information beyond what the cheaper test do. ......

If people are willing to pay for BigY for genealogical reasons and find it useful beyond the cheaper tests, that is great, but people in that situation are few and far between.
Your first statement is true.

But you second statement above does NOT automatically follow!

Believe me, its not true.

Its especially true for people in large families,
like mine for instance ... the "Core" McDonalds. We descend from a single man in about the year 1330. Our STR haplotype is very distinctive indeed. But the STRs that distinguish us do not break us up into useful smaller family groups. In fact, there are people who differ from the known haplotype of the progenitor by only one marker in 111 (or in a few cases even more than 111).

But BigY has generated enough SNPs that most men are clustered in groups. So far we have found no man who has zero SNPs different from the common ancestor. Several
have just one reliable one.

In fact, several men, who are poor or cheapskates, have tested one SNP to see if they belong to the main group, and if they do, tested just a SNP Panel at Yseq, with excellent results.
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  #13  
Old 4th January 2018, 02:46 AM
Alhan Alhan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando View Post
Using the current cutoff of 30 non-matching variants, most BigY tested people can tell fairly easily if they should have BigY matches simply by counting the Unnamed Variants. If there are more than 15 Unnamed Variants then it is extremely likely that most other people also have more than 15 Unnamed Variants and therefore they have more than 30 non-matching variants which is more than allowed to have a match.
Great explanations thanks. I've taken the quick road from YDNA12 to BigY in August sale, I was pretty much clueless what's been going on.

I now have 24 unnamed variants. However, I did have some matches before HG38 conversion. In fact my terminal SNP (R-FGC64132) formed after my results (my little contribution to Geneology I guess!)

From your explanations, I assume my fellow who is sharing my terminal SNP had less than 16 unnamed variants, so we were matching on BigY. (considering old 40 unnamed variants threshold)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando View Post
Anyone with 15 unnamed variants has a terminal SNP that is at least around 2,000 years old. That's too far back for genealogy anyway.
I think it should be up to me to choose between 30 or 40 unnamed variant threshold. Is it so hard to put a button for this?

Currently, I have zero matches at all levels. It's now more than 3 months I am waiting for my BAM file.

I feel frustrated and disappointed. Before Armando's explanations, I was thinking my matches will come back when they're done with re-processing.

I wish I've taken R1a backbone test and stop there.
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  #14  
Old 4th January 2018, 11:01 AM
Ric Ric is offline
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No match is terrible, while it is easy to filter an excess of matches. That has been said here and elsewhere. No customers is going to be happy with it.

Also, what's the point of the new features added to the BigY interface with zero match ?

Then finally, at this point people with zero Match will find more information in their group than from their BigY results, or absence thereof.
But precisely, I want to point out that many people in the groups have joined because they were contacted by their BigY matches and asked to join, or take the BigY in some case.
This is my case. I contacted one BigY match who was not part of the relevant group, and he agreed to join, and he downloaded to Alex Williamson BigTree, bringing valuable information doing so.
Having zero match now, I could not have contacted him and he may NOT have joined on his own, or perhaps he would, there is no way to know.
But the groups are not going to grow as fast now.

Remember that most FTDNA customers just do a STR test and stop there. SNPs and Big Y is way above their head and unless they are contacted by a match, they won't do anything more, not even join a group.
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  #15  
Old 5th January 2018, 10:22 PM
similligan similligan is offline
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I have a family member who has 40 novel variants. I don't think I would ever want to look at the list of non-matching novel variants, but I would like to see a modified list of his matches at each level, possibly with the number of variants in parentheses or simply "more than 30". I agree with Ric that it could be important for haplogroup projects.
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  #16  
Old 6th January 2018, 07:59 AM
mattn mattn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John McCoy View Post
For me, the lack of close matches on FTDNA even before the "reprocessing" and also on YFull has been useful. It is now clear that my McCoy family is not related to the other McCoy's who have been tested, and that I can safely ignore them in my research! But the McCoy families from Brown County, Illinois that I would really like to compare myself with haven't been tested.
I'm confused. Shouldn't the STR results already given you this information?
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  #17  
Old 6th January 2018, 08:28 AM
Ric Ric is offline
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I am not sure it is useful to argue, even assuming that one admin here reports to FTDNA 'customers wish this or that'.
Do they care ?

Quantity is a quality by itself.
Such as for example, 10 matches at GD=40 SNP (that you won't get now) all spread around Poland are well worth 1 single match at GD=10 (that you won't get either) located in Warsaw, Poland.

With GD=40 matches, you can add statistical weight to a geographic location, or a name, and then when the (Location X Name) pops up as a STR match (more likely than a BigY, let's get real) contact the person, ask to join a group and only then, this person may take a BigY.
The idea that you can get close GD=10 BigY match straight, by just waiting, is like winning the lottery.

In fact it is worse than that. Most people still test with an autosomal kit and when you get a favorable statistical (gepography X name) hit, you have to beg the person to take a STR test, because obviously nobody is going to take an expensive BigY test that brings potentially NO meaningful information (Yeah you are BY1843567 !) and No match. STR tests are still the best compromise to satisfy somebody's investment and keep the person interested, which it is all about.
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  #18  
Old 7th January 2018, 06:24 PM
bvbellomo bvbellomo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando View Post
How in the world is anyone supposed to know if a match is going to show up without them getting tested first? How do you know if you will not get a significant match in the next few years? How do you feel about telling potential matches that they should not get a BigY test which could in turn cause you to not get a match for a lot longer time from now than would occur without the complaint?
You can reasonably guess based on your haplogroup. Lots of Western Europeans test, so if you are R1b, I'd be surprised if you don't match. But how many native Americans, obscure African lineages, and other "interesting" results are going to have matches? Almost none, and these are the people who will advance science by testing.
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  #19  
Old 7th January 2018, 06:26 PM
bvbellomo bvbellomo is offline
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BTW - I have 39 unnamed variants. So it is unlikely I will see a match any time soon.
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  #20  
Old 8th January 2018, 07:27 AM
Armando Armando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhan View Post
Great explanations thanks. I've taken the quick road from YDNA12 to BigY in August sale, I was pretty much clueless what's been going on.

I now have 24 unnamed variants. However, I did have some matches before HG38 conversion. In fact my terminal SNP (R-FGC64132) formed after my results (my little contribution to Geneology I guess!)

From your explanations, I assume my fellow who is sharing my terminal SNP had less than 16 unnamed variants, so we were matching on BigY. (considering old 40 unnamed variants threshold)
The threshold wasn't added until the hg38 upgrade. They officially state that the cutoff is 40 non-matching variants but it is actually 30 non-matching variants because people that should have matches with 35 or 39 non-matching variants don't get those matches. So no, the fellow sharing your terminal SNP did not have less than 16 unnamed variants.

Last edited by Armando; 8th January 2018 at 07:56 AM.
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