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Y-DNA Haplogroups & SNPs Advanced Users can talk about SNP based tests such as single SNP testing by Sanger sequencing, Geno 2.0 chip based testing, and next-generation sequencing tests like BIG Y.

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  #1  
Old 13th May 2013, 10:24 AM
dreimiller dreimiller is offline
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Location: Gales Ferry, CT USA
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Question Different predictions - FTDNA vs. 23andMe

My FTDNA predicted haplogroup is R-M269 (R1b1a2). I've taken the Y-DNA11 test and I'm waiting (9 weeks and counting) for my Geno 2.0 results.

I noticed last night that my 23andMe Y-DNA haplogroup is listed as R1b1b2a1a. What is odd is that I don't remember ever noticing that the two predictions were different, and R-M269 is what I remembered.

From what I understand, my Geno 2.0 results (if I ever get them) will provide me with the definitive answer but I'm curious whether I should believe the current FTDNA or 23andMe prediction. Is the 23andMe more accurate than the Y-DNA111 test or vice versa?
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Old 13th May 2013, 11:07 AM
T E Peterman T E Peterman is offline
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R M269 is the largest haplogroup in western Europe. Family Tree DNA & 23andme use slightly different nomenclature, but they are saying the same thing. What really matters is the terminal SNP & when estimated only, M269 is about as precise as one can get for R1b.

Your Geno 2.0 result should embellish this quite a bit. If deep clade testing were still available, this would also help. If you were to pick two SNPs off the menu to test, I would suggest P312 & U106. Probably 90% of M269 falls within either of these.

Timothy Peterman
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  #3  
Old 13th May 2013, 11:14 AM
tomcat tomcat is offline
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The 23andMe Y assay is several years old, or several years out-of-date, and Y is not their specialty as it is with FTDNA - you can ignore 23andMe's Y assignment.

The Geno 2.0 Y assay is more than a year old but is a much more extensive sampling than 23andMe. It will give you a terminal Y SNP that may replace M-269 and possibly yield a more refined subclade definition.

With Y 111 and Geno 2.0 you are at the end of the road for comprehensive Y testing and only have a-la-carte SNP's available.
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  #4  
Old 13th May 2013, 11:22 AM
tomcat tomcat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T E Peterman View Post
If you were to pick two SNPs off the menu to test, I would suggest P312 & U106. Probably 90% of M269 falls within either of these.
I am among the 10% that is negative for both.
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  #5  
Old 13th May 2013, 11:45 AM
dreimiller dreimiller is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Gales Ferry, CT USA
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How much do SNP tests cost?

If I click on "Order Advanced SNP Test" on the Upgrades page I see that I am "Presumed Positive" for:

P229 P232 P224 P280 P227 P285 M207

I also do not see any that are highlighted in orange as "Test Available". What does that tell me?
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  #6  
Old 13th May 2013, 11:58 AM
dreimiller dreimiller is offline
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Location: Gales Ferry, CT USA
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Ah, I just noticed the Advanced Test option which included Y-SNP tests for $39. What's the difference between these and the Advanced SNP Test option?
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  #7  
Old 13th May 2013, 12:20 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
The 23andMe Y assay is several years old, or several years out-of-date, and Y is not their specialty as it is with FTDNA - you can ignore 23andMe's Y assignment.

The Geno 2.0 Y assay is more than a year old but is a much more extensive sampling than 23andMe. It will give you a terminal Y SNP that may replace M-269 and possibly yield a more refined subclade definition.

With Y 111 and Geno 2.0 you are at the end of the road for comprehensive Y testing and only have a-la-carte SNP's available.
Since the OP's haplogroup assignment from FTDNA (R1b1a2) is just a prediction and 23andMe's haplogroup assignment for him is based on actual SNP testing, he should not just ignore the 23andMe designation. There are problems with some SNPs on the 23andMe chip (for instance, L48), but by and large it's accurate enough.

According to 23andMe's Haplogroup Mutation Mapper, his R1b1b2a1a designation means that he's L11+, but U106- and P312-. So, he's in the 10% of European R1b1a2 subclades that T E Peterman referred to above. In other words, he's in the same situation you are.
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  #8  
Old 13th May 2013, 12:22 PM
Pillar_of_fire Pillar_of_fire is offline
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There are two ways to order SNP tests

1. Order SNP that is on the tree - start from Tab Y-DNA --> Haplotree and SNP --> View your Haplotree - select SNP - (this is a limited number of SNPs - the official tree) - for beginners

2. On the right end of the blue bar on top of the page is a orange tab ORDER AN UPGRADE-->opens a new page --> then select order an ADVANCED TEST --> this opens a new page - select on the filter - test type SNP --> this will give you the full list of SNP. (this route is for users experimenting with SNP testing - advanced users) under the guide of project managers

IMHO - join a project - you results will be grouped and classified and in most cases there will advice what SNP to order (using route 2)

you can visit some projects - there is no need to join in order to view results - have a look at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults - you can see the grouping and target SNP to be tested
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  #9  
Old 13th May 2013, 12:29 PM
Pillar_of_fire Pillar_of_fire is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimiller View Post
How much do SNP tests cost?

If I click on "Order Advanced SNP Test" on the Upgrades page I see that I am "Presumed Positive" for:

P229 P232 P224 P280 P227 P285 M207

I also do not see any that are highlighted in orange as "Test Available". What does that tell me?
No need to test the presumed positive - based on these you are given an assignment.

The highlighted orange test available is the SNP that needs to be tested and if positive you will be assigned to respective subclade down.

The advanced test gives you freedom to test any SNP that is or is not defining a subclade.

the price of SNP is the same regardless the links you use to order it.
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  #10  
Old 13th May 2013, 12:29 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreimiller View Post
Ah, I just noticed the Advanced Test option which included Y-SNP tests for $39. What's the difference between these and the Advanced SNP Test option?
Given that you're awaiting Geno 2.0 results, I don't think it makes any sense to spend money on individual SNP testing at FTDNA until you have the Geno 2.0 results. Those results, when you finally get them, will be more comprehensive than what you have now from FTDNA and 23andMe. They will also be a guide to any supplementary SNP testing at FTDNA that may be appropriate. (I'm waiting for my Geno 2.0 results too; they acknowledged receipt of my sample two months ago and I've been stuck at 20% for weeks now.)

Besides, the fact that, according to your 23andMe results, you're U106- and P312- already greatly limits the number of individual SNPs that would be necessary to test at FTDNA. L11, for which you're positive, is significantly upstream from most European R1b1a2 men. As mentioned above, you're in the upper 10% most upstream portion of R1b1a2 subclades.
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