Go Back   Family Tree DNA Forums > Universal Lineage Testing (Autosomal DNA) > Family Finder Advanced Topics

Family Finder Advanced Topics Advanced discussion about Family Tree DNA's Family Finder Product.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12th July 2017, 07:06 PM
MoberlyDrake MoberlyDrake is offline
mtDNA: T2b5 | Y-DNA: J-M172
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,349
Trying to Help Adoptee, But I Need Help With The Behavior of This Segment

My mother recently got a new match at Ancestry. He's no. 60 on her list of matches. He's adopted and has uploaded to Gedmatch and transferred to FTDNA, but hasn't unlocked his results. He has given me access to his DNA results at Ancestry and joined my small, private family project at FTDNA. He was born in 1947, so there can't be a whole lot of generations difference between him and the unknown common ancestors and my mother and the unknown common ancestors.

His ethnicity results at Ancestry show 47% Italy/Greece, 5% Middle East and 38% Great Britain. His Genetic Community is Early Settlers of Eastern Kentucky & Northeast Tennessee.

I was surprised when I viewed shared matches at Ancestry because the list is so short (4 people) and everyone on it is a descendant of my mother's grandparents!!! However, no one shares enough DNA with this man for him to be a descendant of her grandparents. No one shares more than 1 segment over 7 cM with him.

I was also surprised to see that the different companies do not agree as to the length of the segment he shares with my mother:

Ancestry.com says he shares 34 cM across one segment.
Gedmatch says Chromosome 3 from 63,438,794 to 125,610,651. Length - 46.8 cM
FTDNA says Chromosome 3 from 63,586,263 to 125,467,706. Length 49.11 cM. Total 60 cM.

Why the differences?

With Mom's 1st cousin once removed at Ancestry, he shares 24.4 cM shared across 1 DNA segment.
With a 1st cousin at Gedmatch (tested FTDNA), he shares Chromosome 3 from 103,255,376 to 122,011,919. Length - 16.0 cM.
Another 1st cousin who tested at Ancestry, he doesn't match.

With her 1st cousin twice removed at Gedmatch - Chromosome 3 from 63,475,475 to 107,817,772. Length - 30.8 cM. (Ancestry says 25.8 cM shared across 1 DNA segment). With this cousin's brother at Ancestry, he shares 32 cM shared across 1 DNA segment.

He matches me and my sister, but not my 1st cousins. He also doesn't match my mother's 3rd cousin or his half-brother. Gedmatch finds a 7.2 cM segment on a different chromosome with a 2nd cousin once removed.

My mother's grandmother was the daughter of a French immigrant and a German immigrant and that was my 1st thought. But the adoptee doesn't share any of her ancestry cousins from these families or anyone else with their surnames.

He has only one match in common with my mother at FTDNA, a man with only 3 surnames listed (all KY) and one match in common with her 1st cousin - a descendant of David Hampton and Sarah Wilson of Clark, Co.KY. But since he is a transfer, we can't see distant matches. I looked at my spreadsheet which includes data from 23andMe also and saw another match descended from David Hampton and Sarah Wilson who shares Chromosome 3 from 88,026,086 to 123,982,611, length 26.12 cM with my mother. Assuming this person would probably match the adoptee as well, I thought I had a good triangulation group to work on and wondered why I hadn't done this one already.

As most of you know, I've been trying for several years to discover the unknown parents of my mother's 2nd great-grandparents, Enoch Hampton and Lucretia Duncan, who married in Clark Co., KY in 1831.

Examining matches both at Gedmatch and on my spreadsheet, I got another surprise. Other than my family members, the adoptee, and the above mentioned descendant of David Hampton and Sarah Wilson, the other people who matched my mother along this segment only shared between 7 and 10 cM with her. There isn't a lack of matches, but the segments are so small! No wonder I hadn't worked with this triangulation group. I've begun contacting people, but I don't expect to get much out of it.

I looked at some of the adoptee's matches at Ancestry. He has lots of matches with lots of Clark Co., KY ancestry. If I had what he has, I could probably have solved my mysteries long ago. He was adopted in TX, but I'm thinking his family may not have been away from KY more than a generation or two.

I have advised him to do a Y-DNA test here.

But what does this segment signify? Companies don't agree on its length, hardly any matches in common except my own family members and maybe 2 descendants of David Hampton m. Sarah Wilson, and all my mother's matches on this segment only share small segments along this large segment?

How far back should we look for a common ancestor? Are the common ancestors likely to be far back, and was the very large segment passed down by chance in certain branches? Or should we look at fairly recent generations?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12th July 2017, 07:46 PM
MoberlyDrake MoberlyDrake is offline
mtDNA: T2b5 | Y-DNA: J-M172
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,349
The adoptee just unlocked his results at FTDNA.

As far as the descendant of David Hampton and Mary Bryan who tested at FTDNA goes, he shares 7 segments over 5 cM with her, the longest ones being 19.35 cM and 13.32 cM, the others between 5.24 and 7.66.

Although this lady matches my mother's nephew and her first cousin, they don't share DNA on the same segments. My mother doesn't match her at all.

So I expect the adoptee needs to look for descendants of David Hampton and Sarah Wilson.

All, or almost all of matches of my own family members who descend from David Hampton and Sarah Wilson (and there aren't many) follow this line:

David Hampton m. Sarah Wilson
George Hampton m. Kitty Routt 17 Dec 1807, Clark Co., KY
David L. Hampton m. Susan Gaines 5 Feb 1834 Howard Co., MO

Last edited by MoberlyDrake; 12th July 2017 at 07:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12th July 2017, 07:57 PM
Frederator Frederator is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoberlyDrake View Post
. . . Examining matches both at Gedmatch and on my spreadsheet, I got another surprise. Other than my family members, the adoptee, and the above mentioned descendant of David Hampton and Sarah Wilson, the other people who matched my mother along this segment only shared between 7 and 10 cM with her. There isn't a lack of matches, but the segments are so small! No wonder I hadn't worked with this triangulation group. I've begun contacting people, but I don't expect to get much out of it. . . .
You've included a lot of good information. I'm not sure I've really absorbed everything, but I think I may have an analogous case.

I share a 24cM segment at FTDNA with one donor (let's call her 'Donor A') that turned into 29cM at Gedmatch using the same donor's Ancestry.com kit. All told, between Gedmatch and FTDNA, I think there are over 30 people that share a 12cM portion of the segment, the bit furthest to the right.

For almost all those 30 people, that 12cM segment is only a fractional part of larger segments they share with one another, in the 20cM to 40cM range. So me and Donor A are definitely the odd ones out in this one. Donor A doesn't share any more cM with any of them than I do.

Two of those 30 people, I've been able to connect them to common ancestors born in America around 1750. Frustratingly, my attempts to connect any of the remaining 28 have proven fruitless.

But those common ancestors, I think I know how I may connect to them. One of them shares a surname and a common migration route with known distant cousins of mine who connect all the waaaaaaay back in 1580 in Europe! It's an incredibly common surname, so it's hard to make too much of it, but it is the best clue I have to date.

And it seems to fit with a likely scenario connecting me to Donor A. I triangulated an entirely separate segment for her to a townland adjacent to where my relevant ancestors were living in the 18th and 19th centuries. So there's a pretty strong case that Donor A's ancestors were living there at that time, too.

Can't quite close the gap, but the relevant segment sizes make sense. Donor A and I could share with each other common ancestors born say 1690 or 1720, and our common ancestor with the others could be say 1580.

So maybe this guy's like a 6th to 8th cousin with your mother.

My mother's family are all fairly recent immigrants, so this strong context almost proves to me that at least some of her ~20cM segment matches are no more recent than the early 1600s.

I don't worry too much about reported length differences in that neighborhood. The companies each test a different array of SNPs and it's probable that the question is just a mis-match on single SNP not tested by the company that reported the longer length.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12th July 2017, 07:59 PM
MoberlyDrake MoberlyDrake is offline
mtDNA: T2b5 | Y-DNA: J-M172
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,349
Just checked and he has no Routt matches here and only 3 at Ancestry. Gaines - 1 here, over 50 at Ancestry.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12th July 2017, 08:08 PM
Frederator Frederator is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoberlyDrake View Post
Just checked and he has no Routt matches here and only 3 at Ancestry. Gaines - 1 here, over 50 at Ancestry.
I've had so many false leads based on in-common matches that unless I they share significant parts of the same segment I pretty much ignore them. Phasing my results at Gedmatch confirmed a lot of hypotheses but refuted almost as many.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12th July 2017, 08:17 PM
MoberlyDrake MoberlyDrake is offline
mtDNA: T2b5 | Y-DNA: J-M172
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,349
Really I shouldn't say he doesn't match one of my Mom's 1st cousins who tested at Ancestry, just that that cousin isn't in the shared match list. He could be more distant than a 4th cousin to this match and he wouldn't show up. This 1st cousin has no tree, so I can't search by ancestral surname and amazingly Ancestry gives us no way to search by the ID of the match. That is really frustrating!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12th July 2017, 09:13 PM
MoberlyDrake MoberlyDrake is offline
mtDNA: T2b5 | Y-DNA: J-M172
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,349
Another match to the adoptee at FTDNA Chromosome 17 from 13654256 to 44199696, length 31.56cM, total 54 cM - a descendant of David Hampton m. Sarah Wilson. Their son Joseph had a daughter whom I have as Luann in my database, but the match has her name as Susan. Marriage record is indexed under Luann and I think that is correct.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adoptee looking for Brother 3207wood Adoptees Forum 3 13th August 2017 11:07 PM
Old English adoptee looking for help please Joan Benson Adoptees Forum 4 3rd March 2017 02:53 AM
Novel Behavior in Export to CSV - Help! clintonslayton76 BIG Y and SNP Discovery 0 31st May 2016 07:08 PM
Adoptee bussie Adoptees Forum 7 9th September 2011 04:30 PM
The Adoptee's Dilemma GayeSherman Family Finder Advanced Topics 34 30th August 2010 02:05 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Family Tree DNA - World Headquarters

1445 North Loop West, Suite 820
Houston, Texas 77008, USA

Phone: (713) 868-1438 | Fax: (832) 201-7147
Copyright 2001-2010 Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.