Go Back   Family Tree DNA Forums > General Interest > Scientific Papers

Scientific Papers For talk of scientific papers on population genetics, archaeology, and anthropology related to DNA and personal ancestry testing.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 23rd November 2014, 03:19 AM
1798 1798 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMaddi View Post
No one knows for certain exactly where it occurred. So, I can't answer your question. I suppose you believe that you know where it occurred??!!

Your line of questioning has hijacked this thread, which is about ancient DNA results from Hungary. You've hijacked it to use as a base for your obsession that R1b must have been in western Europe in the last 10,000 years. The study which is the subject of this thread has nothing to say about your obsession.
This study shows that R1b was not in Hungary. That is important as there are lots of posts about my R1b ancestors arriving in the west from Hungary. Furthermore no R1b has been found in the Yamna nor the Corded Ware. Those are the facts.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 23rd November 2014, 11:33 AM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
This study shows that R1b was not in Hungary. That is important as there are lots of posts about my R1b ancestors arriving in the west from Hungary. Furthermore no R1b has been found in the Yamna nor the Corded Ware. Those are the facts.
And with dozens of ancient DNA results in the period of 5,000 to 7,000 years ago from the heart of western Europe (sites in Spain, France, Germany and Italy), not one R1b has been found yet. Still you continue to tell us that R1b must have been in western Europe 10,000 years ago.

Those are the facts which you consistently refuse to consider or even acknowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 23rd November 2014, 12:00 PM
1798 1798 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMaddi View Post
And with dozens of ancient DNA results in the period of 5,000 to 7,000 years ago from the heart of western Europe (sites in Spain, France, Germany and Italy), not one R1b has been found yet. Still you continue to tell us that R1b must have been in western Europe 10,000 years ago.

Those are the facts which you consistently refuse to consider or even acknowledge.
Are we at the end or the beginning of ancient dna testing?

Last edited by 1798; 23rd November 2014 at 12:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 23rd November 2014, 03:31 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
Are we at the end or the beginning of ancient dna testing?
At the point where we see a few R1b results from ancient DNA in Europe, specifically western Europe, from more than 5,000 years ago, I'll congratulate you for being right and being tenacious about it. I've posted that here before and I stand by it.

However, until that point your insistence that R1b must have been in western Europe that long ago makes you look ludicrous. And we all know why you insist that it must be the case. It's all because you would like to say that your paternal line has been in Ireland for 10,000 years or more.

So, you are willing to ignore the clear evidence (yes, so far) and insist on something that all the evidence tells us is very unlikely. In effect, all the scientific data and most reasonable conclusions based on it have to be thrown out so that you can feel eternally Irish. Very sad!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 23rd November 2014, 04:47 PM
1798 1798 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMaddi View Post
At the point where we see a few R1b results from ancient DNA in Europe, specifically western Europe, from more than 5,000 years ago, I'll congratulate you for being right and being tenacious about it. I've posted that here before and I stand by it.

However, until that point your insistence that R1b must have been in western Europe that long ago makes you look ludicrous. And we all know why you insist that it must be the case. It's all because you would like to say that your paternal line has been in Ireland for 10,000 years or more.

So, you are willing to ignore the clear evidence (yes, so far) and insist on something that all the evidence tells us is very unlikely. In effect, all the scientific data and most reasonable conclusions based on it have to be thrown out so that you can feel eternally Irish. Very sad!
Who is the "we all know"? You are the sad one. For you and the few, R1b in western Europe has to be no more than 3000 years old to fit with your "ethnic wanderings".I am the one who is interested in the scientific data.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 24th November 2014, 02:48 PM
N21163 N21163 is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
Who is the "we all know"? You are the sad one. For you and the few, R1b in western Europe has to be no more than 3000 years old to fit with your "ethnic wanderings".I am the one who is interested in the scientific data.
You claim to be "the one interested in scientific data", where is the data to support your position that R1b is 10,000 years old?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24th November 2014, 06:25 PM
1798 1798 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 4,005
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by N21163 View Post
You claim to be "the one interested in scientific data", where is the data to support your position that R1b is 10,000 years old?
128SNPsx150=19,200. 150 per SNP is 6 generations at 25 years or 5 generations at 30 years.There are an average of 36 SNPs under U106 from the 260 U106 Big-Y tests and rest of the SNPs are on the FTDNA Y-tree from M343 to U106. Those SNPs above U106 are from the Geno2 tests and there will be more to be added from the Big-Y tests in the future.It is a rough guide at present.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 24th November 2014, 07:23 PM
N21163 N21163 is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
128SNPsx150=19,200. 150 per SNP is 6 generations at 25 years or 5 generations at 30 years.There are an average of 36 SNPs under U106 from the 260 U106 Big-Y tests and rest of the SNPs are on the FTDNA Y-tree from M343 to U106. Those SNPs above U106 are from the Geno2 tests and there will be more to be added from the Big-Y tests in the future.It is a rough guide at present.
Counting SNPs and deciding to use 150 years as the "average mutation rate" is not scientific data, nor is it evidence.

Last edited by N21163; 24th November 2014 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 25th November 2014, 04:53 AM
1798 1798 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by N21163 View Post
Counting SNPs and deciding to use 150 years as the "average mutation rate" is not scientific data, nor is it evidence.
The SNPs were discovered by scientists and added to the Y-tree in the correct positions. The evidence of our past is in our dna. It depends on the way that one interprets it.You don't want to see it so you are not able to.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 25th November 2014, 08:02 PM
N21163 N21163 is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
The SNPs were discovered by scientists and added to the Y-tree in the correct positions. The evidence of our past is in our dna. It depends on the way that one interprets it.
This has been discussed many times. I have no problems with theories if they are backed up with credible evidence.

SNP counting is not credible evidence.

You want R1b to be in Europe from 10,000 years ago so you are trying to concoct methods to support your beliefs. This is called a confirmation bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1798 View Post
You don't want to see it so you are not able to.
If new information was to come to light that supports R1b being present in Europe earlier than previously thought I am willing to change my position.

While we are still investigating Ancient DNA, there is currently no evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iron Age Briton 1798 Recreation Room 56 19th September 2015 11:30 AM
Neolithic mito hg H genomes PNGarrison Scientific Papers 2 15th March 2014 05:15 PM
A Revised Timescale for Human Evolution Based on Ancient Mitochondrial Genomes Rebekah Canada Scientific Papers 3 12th January 2014 09:21 AM
1000 Genomes Follow Up Project Solothurn Y-DNA Haplogroups & SNPs Advanced 2 8th May 2013 04:42 AM
Mystery of boy in iron coffin Pleroma DNA and Genealogy for Beginners 2 8th December 2007 11:54 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Family Tree DNA - World Headquarters

1445 North Loop West, Suite 820
Houston, Texas 77008, USA

Phone: (713) 868-1438 | Fax: (832) 201-7147
Copyright 2001-2010 Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.