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  #1  
Old 5th October 2017, 10:07 AM
monte7rio monte7rio is offline
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Y dna doesnít support family tree

I am in my rookie season on dna, and am confused by what I seemingly have found re my paternal Heritage. I have a family tree that goes back almost 200 years on my fatherís side showing all his parents and grandparents to be from Germany. Thus, I have always thought I was half German, perhaps with a bit of Scandinavian due to migration patterns. My motherís family was from the British Isles.

I took two general dna tests, one showing 79% British Isles, 14% Scandinavian, and 6% Western Europe; the other showed 66% British, 24% Scandinavian, 7% Iberian, 3% Eastern Europe.

So, puzzled by the almost total lack of German, I had my Y dna run. Of almost 600 matches in the 12-37 marker range, not a single one had my fatherís family surname.

How conclusive is this that my father may have indeed not been my father? Any next steps worthy of time?
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  #2  
Old 5th October 2017, 10:18 AM
Wheal Wheal is offline
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Hi Monte,
I don't think that is all that unusual because of early migration patterns. Even though my grandmother told us we were ALL German, my father doesn't show much German ancestry, and doesn't even have matches in his surname project. his great grandfather was born in Germany, but they migrated from all over Europe during freezes and thaws.

In your case,(as in mine) the migration could also have been by movement into Germany from France and/or British Isles much earlier than 200 years.
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  #3  
Old 5th October 2017, 12:17 PM
spruithean spruithean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monte7rio View Post
I am in my rookie season on dna, and am confused by what I seemingly have found re my paternal Heritage. I have a family tree that goes back almost 200 years on my fatherís side showing all his parents and grandparents to be from Germany. Thus, I have always thought I was half German, perhaps with a bit of Scandinavian due to migration patterns. My motherís family was from the British Isles.

I took two general dna tests, one showing 79% British Isles, 14% Scandinavian, and 6% Western Europe; the other showed 66% British, 24% Scandinavian, 7% Iberian, 3% Eastern Europe.

So, puzzled by the almost total lack of German, I had my Y dna run. Of almost 600 matches in the 12-37 marker range, not a single one had my fatherís family surname.

How conclusive is this that my father may have indeed not been my father? Any next steps worthy of time?
That isn't necessarily the case. How many confirmed cousins sharing your surname have had their Y-DNA tested with FamilyTreeDNA?

Not to mention the FamilyTreeDNA database is heavily populated by people of British & Irish descent and so their Y-DNA results of course are equally as heavily populated. Not to mention that a large number of Europeans and people of European descent are some subgroup of Haplogroup R1b.

I wouldn't worry about any "misattributed parentage" events until you've had male cousins sharing your surname (distant male cousins, descendants of collateral lines of your ancestor) have tested their Y-DNA.

In regards to the autosomal DNA tests and their "ethnicity" estimates...

I wouldn't get too hung up on these results, please remember that much of Britain, Ireland and Western Europe have similar migrations of people composing their histories. Between the migrations of Celtic tribes, Germanic tribes and the Roman Empire shuffling various foederati and laeti groups around there is bound to be some mixing.

And remember each ethnicity estimate method is based off of a company's reference populations they use to determine these estimates.
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  #4  
Old 6th October 2017, 07:03 AM
Jim Barrett Jim Barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monte7rio View Post
I took two general dna tests, one showing 79% British Isles, 14% Scandinavian, and 6% Western Europe; the other showed 66% British, 24% Scandinavian, 7% Iberian, 3% Eastern Europe.

So, puzzled by the almost total lack of German, I had my Y dna run. Of almost 600 matches in the 12-37 marker range, not a single one had my father’s family surname.

How conclusive is this that my father may have indeed not been my father? Any next steps worthy of time?
Which two tests? From which company(ies)? Why do you think this indicates that your father may not be your father? Maybe it was the person you think was your great great grandfather who you have in error?

As already suggested, for tracing your paternal line, you need to have some male cousins with their paternal line going back to a common male ancestor, order Y-DNA also. Pick a 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, 3rd cousin etc., until their results doesn't match your. At that point you'll need to test additional cousins at that level to find out which one of you has the broken line. If you have a brother you might have him test also.

How many markers did you have tested? When viewing your Y-DNA matches, what is the genetic distance to your best matches at the highest number of markers?

Last edited by Jim Barrett; 6th October 2017 at 07:06 AM.
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  #5  
Old 6th October 2017, 11:36 AM
MoberlyDrake MoberlyDrake is offline
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I would suggest upgrading to 67 markers or more. Also, how many of the 600 have a GD of 0 or 1 and do they all have the same surname or do they have a lot of different surnames.

What about your Family Finder or other autosomal tests? Do you have any matches on your father's side?

I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet. When my cousin did a Y-DNA test, it did turn up an NPE in our family and destroyed 10 years of research. But it turned out not to be him who was illegitimate, but his great-grandfather. I don't think you have enough info yet though.
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  #6  
Old 8th October 2017, 07:31 AM
T E Peterman T E Peterman is offline
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Some models don't even include Germany as an option. German ancestry is resolved to either Scandinavian, Great Britain, Western Europe, Central Europe, or Eastern Europe.

Timothy Peterman
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  #7  
Old 8th October 2017, 02:42 PM
dna dna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T E Peterman View Post
Some models don't even include Germany as an option. German ancestry is resolved to either Scandinavian, Great Britain, Western Europe, Central Europe, or Eastern Europe.

Timothy Peterman
One should not make ethnicity claims with Y DNA tests. Family finder is better for that. With Y DNA one finds ancestry from the times before modern ethnicity concepts.

If one reads history of Germany and Central Europe it is evident that individuals travelled to foreign countries: artists, artisans, merchants, scientists, scholars and they often travelled with their servants. A miller or a blacksmith could have been brought into a village from far away, then one of his sons could have travelled again.

Mr. W

P.S.
The above is not about proving (or even better: disapproving) a paternal relationship between two individuals using STRs.
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