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  • Wills
    FTDNA Customer
    • Feb 2012
    • 44

    Matching

    Is it possible for someone to not have an exact match with their father at twelve markers ? What about at all markers levels ?

    Same question for direct Y-line uncles, and cousins.

    I understand mutations can occur at any time, but wouldn't a father and son always be exactly matched at 12 markers ?

    D.W.
  • Stevo
    R1b-FGC36981
    • Apr 2006
    • 5642

    #2
    Originally posted by Wills View Post
    Is it possible for someone to not have an exact match with their father at twelve markers ? What about at all markers levels ?

    Same question for direct Y-line uncles, and cousins.

    I understand mutations can occur at any time, but wouldn't a father and son always be exactly matched at 12 markers ?

    D.W.
    Yes, it is possible, and no, they don't always match exactly on the first 12 markers.

    My youngest son and I are two off in the first 12 markers, but 65/67 overall. My oldest son, on the other hand, matches me exactly at 37 (that's as many markers as he has).

    I have heard of other father/son matches that are similar, some as far as three or four off at 67 markers.
    Last edited by Stevo; 10 April 2013, 11:51 AM.

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    • Mylineage
      Registered User
      • Nov 2012
      • 154

      #3
      Interesting

      Based on what you just stated, that a father & son can have from 0-4 mismatches, and if two people know they are related to the same family line, but not the same branch of that family line, and they match 104/111 markers and match the same terminal snp, then their common ancestor could be within 200 years or possibly even closer.

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      • prairielad
        FTDNA Customer
        • Feb 2011
        • 2170

        #4
        Originally posted by Wills View Post
        Is it possible for someone to not have an exact match with their father at twelve markers ? What about at all markers levels ?

        Same question for direct Y-line uncles, and cousins.

        I understand mutations can occur at any time, but wouldn't a father and son always be exactly matched at 12 markers ?

        D.W.
        Yes it is possible. This is when the STR markers mutate, Father to Son transmission during the Gamete production in father. This is why siblings can have different values also.

        It is why I recommend anyone testing to test either their father or grandfather if possible, as it will rule out any recent mutations and match you up with others better if you did have recent ones.

        Depending on your goals with yDNA and how close you match others with your surname, it is also best to test multiple people in your known line to help triangulate timeframe of mutations.

        For example in my line if have tested my Father(111), his brother(37), his 1st Cousin(67)
        My Father has a GD of 4 to his 1st Cousin at the 67 marker level.

        Brothers share a 1 step marker value difference that is not present in Cousin at the 12 marker level. Cousins value matches surname matches value. This indicates that my Grandfather received the mutated STR value while his Sibling(cousin's father) did not.

        At the 37 marker level Brothers differ on one marker. They also differ at this marker to Cousin who again shares the value with the majority of surname matches. My Father has a 2 step difference and his brother has a one step difference. This again indicates that either my Grandfather received a 2 step mutation on this marker and it then back mutated when it was passed on to my Uncle. Or my Grandfather received a 1 step mutation, which then mutated again 1 step when passed on to my father.

        Also at the 37 marker level (CDY marker) brothers share the same marker, while cousin is off by one. It is 50/50 according to surname matches which sibling has the mutation(my Grandfather or his brother)

        At the 67 marker level both my father and his cousin share a 1 step difference from all other matches(My uncles value unknown as only tested to 37). This indicates that this marker value would have mutated either when it was passed on to my Grandfather's father or before.

        All in All it shows that my direct line has had higher then average mutations within the last few generations encompassing the 12, 37, and 67 marker levels.

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