Go Back   Family Tree DNA Forums > Universal Lineage Testing (Autosomal DNA) > myOrigins Basics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 17th February 2018, 10:14 PM
spruithean spruithean is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lani Friend View Post
So are you saying there could be an error with FT calculations? That it's just not that accurate?
No company is "accurate" in their ethnicity estimates IMHO. Populations share genetics regardless of boundaries and man-made borders.

My own paper trail ancestry is mostly Dutch and British/Irish with trace amounts of French, German and a few others. FTDNA gives me a large percentage of West/Central European, British Isles and a small portion of Scandinavian. Fairly agreeable, the Dutch and English share similar Germanic origins, among other ancient populations.

If I go to GEDmatch many of those calculators still don't place me with Dutch in the oracle results, however they come close with Danish, North German or similar groups. When the oracles increase their population combos to 2,3 and 4 they become reasonable but still not "accurate".

Last edited by spruithean; 17th February 2018 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17th February 2018, 11:15 PM
JesperS JesperS is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 6
If the companies would share their algorithms for determining ancestry, we might be able to better understand results - but they are not going to, so we just guess.

Let's say that 10 % of the markers in a reference population are "unique" to that population the rest is shared with neighboring regions.

Let's say by chance you inherit equivalent of 1 % markers "unique" to Scandinavia from your mother and equivalent of 9 % markers "unique" to the British Isles from your father. The rest 90 % is the same for the two populations.
Now the computer has to extrapolate (guess): You are 90 % British and 10 % Scandinavian.

Of course they have a more sophisticated algorithm than that, but you get the idea.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18th February 2018, 07:59 AM
josh w. josh w. is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lani Friend View Post
What are your sources for this? I would like to read more about it.
As I recall, it was from a book entitled "The Norwegians" My daughter's maternal line is from Fjaerland and Balestrand. Ironically, I am Ashkenazi and have Ashkenazi matches from the Sognefjord area.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18th February 2018, 08:31 AM
josh w. josh w. is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
As I recall, it was from a book entitled "The Norwegians" My daughter's maternal line is from Fjaerland and Balestrand. Ironically, I am Ashkenazi and have Ashkenazi matches from the Sognefjord area.
It has been suggested that a main reason for Viking voyages was the search for wives. The wives would be brought back to Norway
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18th February 2018, 02:50 PM
Lani Friend Lani Friend is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
No company is "accurate" in their ethnicity estimates IMHO. Populations share genetics regardless of boundaries and man-made borders.

My own paper trail ancestry is mostly Dutch and British/Irish with trace amounts of French, German and a few others. FTDNA gives me a large percentage of West/Central European, British Isles and a small portion of Scandinavian. Fairly agreeable, the Dutch and English share similar Germanic origins, among other ancient populations.

If I go to GEDmatch many of those calculators still don't place me with Dutch in the oracle results, however they come close with Danish, North German or similar groups. When the oracles increase their population combos to 2,3 and 4 they become reasonable but still not "accurate".
Thanks for the input. Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence. Please explain oracles and pop combos, thank you. (Newbie to all this) Lani
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18th February 2018, 03:02 PM
Lani Friend Lani Friend is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesperS View Post
If the companies would share their algorithms for determining ancestry, we might be able to better understand results - but they are not going to, so we just guess.

Let's say that 10 % of the markers in a reference population are "unique" to that population the rest is shared with neighboring regions.

Let's say by chance you inherit equivalent of 1 % markers "unique" to Scandinavia from your mother and equivalent of 9 % markers "unique" to the British Isles from your father. The rest 90 % is the same for the two populations.
Now the computer has to extrapolate (guess): You are 90 % British and 10 % Scandinavian.

Of course they have a more sophisticated algorithm than that, but you get the idea.
This is the most helpful answer so far. Eternal gratitude. Am upset at having seemingly "lost" half my heritage. Forgive following dumb questions. Am retired English teacher trying to educate myself. That said, are you saying that I could have inherited more markers/DNA from my Dad than from my Mom? I thought we inherited 50% of our DNA from each parent. Thanks for your response to this...breathlessly awaiting it asw this is a crucial point.

PS Having to use ancient laptop at McDonalds because home internet connection is out for 2 days...May take time to answer your response. Also I can't do this on my Iphone because the screen is too small as is the keyboard and I can't see well as is. Blessings, LKF
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18th February 2018, 03:09 PM
Lani Friend Lani Friend is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
It has been suggested that a main reason for Viking voyages was the search for wives. The wives would be brought back to Norway
Amazing about your Ashkenazi heritage from Norway! How absolutely fascinating! Thanks for the book reference. Will try to find it. I read several recent scientific articles online about the Vikings raiding for women and slaves in the Brit. Isles. One responder has said that would be too far back to show up in my percentages, but I think it could explain how the BI DNA/marker got into my ancestry along the fjord in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18th February 2018, 03:53 PM
mollyblum mollyblum is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: The Cosmos
Posts: 321
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lani Friend View Post
Amazing about your Ashkenazi heritage from Norway! How absolutely fascinating! Thanks for the book reference. Will try to find it. I read several recent scientific articles online about the Vikings raiding for women and slaves in the Brit. Isles. One responder has said that would be too far back to show up in my percentages, but I think it could explain how the BI DNA/marker got into my ancestry along the fjord in the first place.
Honestly I would not read too much into it. My father is adopted but I know his birth mother is Norwegian or rather Scandinavian as her ancestry traces back to before borders between Norway/Sweden. His birth father (99% sure of who he is) also has a line to 🇳🇴 Norway. My MO does show as around 22% Scandinavian but like almost 50% British Isles as well. When I do admixtures on GEDMATCH (if you havenít uploaded your dna there you should) it gives a much higher % of North Atlantic ancestry which I believe is what you and I would share. There is BI in there but also Scandinavia & probably some Icelandic & random islands if they were raiding. I would try the admixtures and see what it shows.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18th February 2018, 03:57 PM
spruithean spruithean is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lani Friend View Post
Thanks for the input. Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence. Please explain oracles and pop combos, thank you. (Newbie to all this) Lani
When you upload your "raw data" to GEDmatch you eventually gain access to Admixture calculators, which have various tools that can show results varying from chromosome painting, which shows a breakdown of what regions of each chromosome may belong to which ever group of people in your overall ancestral make-up.

One of these other tools that can be used with the admixture calculator tools is the "Oracle" which compares your data to data collected from various ethnic groups around the world. From there it guesses what your ancestry might be, and it can either be a single population or it can include 4 different populations combined. For example with my own Eurogenes K15 (one of the tools on Gedmatch):

Quote:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.870829
2 West_Scottish @ 4.839707
3 Southeast_English @ 4.857043
4 Danish @ 5.758917
5 North_German @ 5.963065
...
It shows roughly 20 populations here, the larger the number to the right the more distant you are.

From there it goes on to 2 populations (50% Irish + 50% Irish), 3 (50% Irish+25% Irish+25% North German) and finally 4 (Irish+Irish+Irish+North German). These estimates aren't close to my actual known ancestry, however it isn't far off either. A more accurate result would include more than just Irish and North German.

Each calculator makes different guesses and some are entertaining and FAR from close, and this is true for the algorithms used by the various genetic genealogy companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lani Friend View Post
This is the most helpful answer so far. Eternal gratitude. Am upset at having seemingly "lost" half my heritage. Forgive following dumb questions. Am retired English teacher trying to educate myself. That said, are you saying that I could have inherited more markers/DNA from my Dad than from my Mom? I thought we inherited 50% of our DNA from each parent. Thanks for your response to this...breathlessly awaiting it asw this is a crucial point.
It is entirely possible to inherit more genetics from one parent over the other, but nothing crazy. Please don't take your MyOrigins results as fact. What you should be paying more attention to is your matches, are many of them relevant genealogical matches to your paternal and maternal families?

Here are a few good reads on the subject:

Genetic Genealogy using GEDmatch < this one is very useful for me at least

Understanding Patterns of Inheritance: Where Did My DNA Come From? (And Why It Matters.)

Last edited by spruithean; 18th February 2018 at 04:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18th February 2018, 07:35 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
FTDNA Customer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lani Friend View Post
Amazing about your Ashkenazi heritage from Norway! How absolutely fascinating! Thanks for the book reference. Will try to find it. I read several recent scientific articles online about the Vikings raiding for women and slaves in the Brit. Isles. One responder has said that would be too far back to show up in my percentages, but I think it could explain how the BI DNA/marker got into my ancestry along the fjord in the first place.
I share all the cautions about interpreting results, but that does not rule out Viking and related ancestry. My daughter's family records go back to the 1600s. My two older kids are of English ancestry Some family trees suggest Norman ancestors and their MO2 indicates Norwegian ancestry----could be Viking or Norman.

Yes my Ashkenazi matches were indeed a surprise, given their specific location. Actually there were two separate matches later combined by marriage. They were familiar with the homestead of my daughter's family in Fjaerland.
I was recently informed of a match from Trondheim. I then discovered that Trondheim had a thriving Jewish community until the Nazis arrived. Trondheim is the only Norwegian city outside of Oslo to have a current synagogue although few Jews are left
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Segment shared with many Finnish/Norwegian matvhes jbower Family Finder Basics 7 24th February 2017 06:58 PM
Told he was English found out through DNA 1/2 Norwegian LilaJ Adoptees Forum 5 2nd February 2017 06:54 PM
Where did my Scandinavian DNA come from? dcx4610 myOrigins Basics 7 30th August 2016 07:55 PM
Half siblings vs. half aunt/niece Juanita Family Finder Basics 11 11th February 2015 09:19 PM
Norwegian results? henrials Family Finder Advanced Topics 13 17th August 2012 11:34 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Family Tree DNA - World Headquarters

1445 North Loop West, Suite 820
Houston, Texas 77008, USA

Phone: (713) 868-1438 | Fax: (832) 201-7147
Copyright 2001-2010 Genealogy by Genetics, Ltd.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.