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  #1  
Old 8th January 2017, 05:20 PM
Pero Pero is offline
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Question About R-L21 prediction and possible Jewish Origin.

Hello everyone, My name is Pero, I'm Braziliam with Portuguese origin and I would like to understand my genetic origins of Y-DNA, some time ago I did the Y-DNA test with 67 markers from FTDNA company, I received the results: R-M269.

By my patrilineal genealogy, I am a descendant of Portuguese who lived in Ponte de Lima (Viana do Castelo) in the north of Portugal.

I then discovered recently using the R1b prediction calculator from Nevgen.org, which has a 91% chance of being R-L1066 (a branch of R-L21), I estimate that because of this fact, perhaps most of My matches that only arrive until the Y25, are of English with the SNP R-L21.

My most distant patrilinear ancestor is Antonio Fernandes, who was a crypto-Jew, and lived in Ponte de Lima in the second half of the sixteenth century.

I have researched from various sources and have seen that Haplogroup R-L21 may be related to Jews, considering that four of my matches in Y12 are of Jewish origin, one of them is a descendant of Rabbi Joseph Kimhi, and the other is a Cohen.

I would like to know if this information about Haplogroup R-L21 is related to Jews proceeds, because some people say in some sites that I saw that this Haplogroup would be related to King David's origin (although I doubt it).

Thank you all!
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  #2  
Old 8th January 2017, 06:39 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
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Location: Houston, TX
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I don't find that the haplogroup predictors for R1b subclades are that accurate. If you really want to know your downstream subclade, you'll have to order a SNP test. That would be either the R1b-M343 Backbone SNP pack or a Big Y test.

The SNP pack is cheaper and will test for dozens of known SNPs that will probably you get your downstream subclade to about 1,000-2,000 years ago. Then you can order a second more downstream SNP pack that will probably get you down to a subclade younger than 1,000 years old. Although Big Y is much more expensive, it will find previously unknown SNPs, including some younger than 1,000 years old which may be unique to the most recent several generations of your paternal line.

You should also join the R1b All Subclades Project at https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/about. The administrators there can help you understand your results better and advise you about SNP testing.

As for the idea that L21 or its specific L1066 subclade is associated with Jewish ancestry, I've never heard that before. Given that L21 is a strongly northwestern European (especially British Isles) subclade and has been for probably 4,000 years, I doubt that any of its subclades are associated with Jewish ancestry, including from the Iberian peninsula. The fact that four of your 12 marker matches are Jewish doesn't tell you much, unless they are also matches at 37 or, better, 67 markers. (You probably have many 12 marker matches who are non-Jewish.) Of course, I may be wrong about that and the administrators of the project I linked to may have more information than I have about this theory.

It may be that your results from a SNP test show that you're not L21+ or L1066+, but in a subclade that does have some association with Jewish ancestry. That would be another reason to order a SNP test.
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  #3  
Old 9th January 2017, 12:53 AM
Pero Pero is offline
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Hello, thank you for answering my doubts.
I am part of some FTDNA groups, among them a group on the SNP R-Z253, there they did the prediction and they rated me as Z253+ potential,

What I know so far is that there is an SNP called Z251 being one of its branches R-S11556 which is very common among people of Jewish origin.

I will buy the SNP package, however I have some doubts:

Is there a risk that my SNP will not be classified? If it is, more matches will appear with me, or would it be interesting for this to happen to buy BigY?

In Ysearch there is a match with me of 44 markers with genetic distance of 6, which is an entry that reports the R-U106 markers, though I believe I am not of this SNP, due to the fact that my DYS492 = 12.

Thank you very much for your response and recommendation.

Best regards!
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  #4  
Old 9th January 2017, 09:01 AM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pero View Post
Hello, thank you for answering my doubts.
I am part of some FTDNA groups, among them a group on the SNP R-Z253, there they did the prediction and they rated me as Z253+ potential,

What I know so far is that there is an SNP called Z251 being one of its branches R-S11556 which is very common among people of Jewish origin.
I took a look at the results table for the Z251 Project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults. Overall, the people in the project seem to be overwhelmingly northern European in ancestry, with no obvious Jewish-sounding surnames. However, searching the page for S11556, it looks like members of that subclade are more diverse in their ancestry. Many of the subclades of S11556 are dominated by men with British or other northern European ancestry. But there are small subclades that look like they are made up of men with eastern European (Russia, Lithuania, Belarus), probably Ashkenazi, ancestry. The common SNP that all the men in these subclades share is A555.

So, maybe there is some truth to there being a downstream subclade of Z251 that is Jewish, although it seems to be Ashkenazi, not Sephardic. However, after the expulsion from Spain in 1492, many Sephardim went to eastern Europe and intermarried with Ashkenazi Jews. You should ask the administrators of the Z251 Project for more information about A555 and whether your STR results look like they fit in that subclade. Confirming that would still require some sort of SNP test.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pero View Post
I will buy the SNP package, however I have some doubts:

Is there a risk that my SNP will not be classified? If it is, more matches will appear with me, or would it be interesting for this to happen to buy BigY?
With a SNP pack, it's very rare that someone will not test positive for a downstream SNP that leads to a second more downstream SNP pack. (The only serious chance of that happening is if you choose the wrong SNP pack. See the next paragraph.) So, I don't think you have to worry that it will happen to you. If you're willing to spend more money for the Big Y test, that will find both known and previously unknown SNPs. You can't go wrong with that, if you don't mind the cost. With Big Y, you are assured of being positive for the SNPs on your branch and not wasting money on the wrong SNP pack.

I checked to see if there is a Z251 SNP pack. There is one and it includes A555. There's also a Z253 SNP pack. However, you should check with the administrators of the relevant projects about whether there's a significant chance that you may be negative for either branch and be wasting your money. They would be the best ones to help you decide which SNP pack is best. It may be that they recommend the M343 Backbone or L21 SNP pack as a conservative choice that will not be a waste of money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pero View Post
In Ysearch there is a match with me of 44 markers with genetic distance of 6, which is an entry that reports the R-U106 markers, though I believe I am not of this SNP, due to the fact that my DYS492 = 12.

Thank you very much for your response and recommendation.

Best regards!
I'm familiar with the ysearch account that you're writing about. I was the one who created that account several years ago.

It's somewhat out of date, now that SNP testing is more advanced. There are many people who write me about being a close match to the marker counts. However, the key marker is DYS492. More than 95% of U106+ men have DYS492=13. If you have DYS492=12, it's pretty close to certain that you're U106-. Again, only a SNP test can confirm your status for any branch or specific SNP.
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  #5  
Old 24th February 2017, 02:17 AM
htb htb is offline
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PERO

AS to your JEWISHNESS, OUR "R" Haplogroup goes like this CT-CF-F-GHIJK- MNOP-RQ. those underlined being FATHERS of next lines. "IT IS MY BELIEF" that "F" was ABRAHAM, J1 are Arabs, and J2 Israelites. R comes from P, which came from K. F=Abraham, his children are GHIJK. ABRAHAM had 8 SONS (Gen 25) and not 2. SO WE ARE "ALL" SONS OF ABRAHAM. JUDAISM is a Religion that any one at any time can join. YOU & I could join it today. JEWS come the TRIBE of YEHUDA, or "Judah". NOW, until they can FIND a SNP, that saids that someone WENT INTO JUDAISM, or you can find a family member that JOINED JUDAISM, then you're not Jewish. BUT, YOU ARE A HEBREW, ABRAHAM's SON. I come from R-U106, there are SOME SNP's that people say are COHEN - PRIEST. In my search of "MARKERS" & "SNP's" I can't find a "PROFANE" PRIESTLY marker or snp.
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  #6  
Old 27th April 2017, 07:06 PM
Wheal Wheal is offline
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HVR1 matches

I guess I don't really understand all of this. but I have on HVR1 matches under notes:
Austria -Ashenazi (3)
Hungary -Ashkenazi (2)
Iran -Mizrachi (1)
Libya -Sephardic (2)
Lithuania -Ashkenazi (2)
Morocco -Sephardic (1)
Russian Federation -Ashkenazi (2)
Spain -Sepharidc (1)
Ukraine -Ashkenazi (10)
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